The Wallaby Reputation

[Gagger]

So what are you saying? Job done? Good work? There is nothing whatsoever that the coach should do differently? Do you reject any suggestion to the contrary?

Of course not - well done on the hyperbole though!

I believe even Dingo says they've got work to do in just about every press conference, including after HK

There are clearly still aspects to improve, some of them by a long way. But there has been improvement, and continues to be. We're already seeing the fruits of that improvement. Losses, and areas of poor performance don't negate that.

On the England match, what is a sucker punch? Did they do something underhanded in order to win? Was the result not a reflection of the way the two teams played? Were the penalties that you consider won the match for England not, on balance, warranted (bearing in mind that at least one of them was for a clear professional foul that likely denied a try)?

I'm still to watch the replay from having been at the game, but my recollection of the game is that just about every pommy attack came from turn over ball with the Wallabies hot on attack. Some of those turn overs were legitimate because their forwards especially played very well, others were just plain ropey. Hence the sucker-punch.

It was two tries a piece. Pen goal shots 5 vs 7 total pen count 11 vs 12.

 

[Langthorne]

....well done on the hyperbole...

Just trying to fit in.

 

[grievous]

Read the rest of the thread. Can I be clear, this is not a post loss(to the POMS no less) rant. Yes there are positives recently such as we have discovered our backline attack once renoewned for, it would seem at the expense of a solid defence, the McQueen legacy of the size beats flair seems to be dead.
But we are playing one dimensionally, what is the game plan when a team like England bring their A++++ game? Running about with our arms in the air it would seem.
Im not for culling Deans yet as Im not sure if its his coaching or the players that he has no choice but to work with.
Ive lived with us having a poor scrum now for too many seasons, why cant it be fixed? How many years will it be before we lose this reputation?
No too many mistakes not being addressed that happen over and over, thats my main qualm.
One thing, last year was a good S14 season for unearthing good talent. Im hoping next season will be again and the impact the Rebels can have. Maybe Im desperate or harp back to the halycon days but McQueen is my Obi Wan at the moment. I think he can do some great things with his side and bring out the best in a squad that looks adequate on paper. But Deans will have little time for getting it right from there and has to start being ruthless from this weekend

 

[Langthorne]

It was two tries a piece. Pen goal shots 5 vs 7 total pen count 11 vs 12.

Is winning as a result of kicking conversions and penalty goals somehow less valid than some other method?

The shots Vs total count figures on penalties are interesting...is it that the Wallabies tended to infringe more in their own half? when under pressure from England attacks? ....like the All Blacks tend to do? (except the Wallabies copped a yellow for it, but that is another thread).

Making good use of turn over ball is opportunistic...sucker punch has a negative/underhanded connotation....I guess if the Wallabies expected the English to just lump out any turnover ball you could call it unexpected....and if they believed there was some kind of rule that the English should lump it out you could call it underhanded.

 

[Gagger]

When you've built attack through phase play literally 2m from someone's line, they turn you over and streak away to score 98m away for a 14 point turnaround, then I call that a sucker punch.

Doesn't have to connote underhandedness, although if you watch that turnover is does happen to in this case.

 

[Richard D. James]

We got sucker-punched by England

This is the bit that gets me.

I mostly agree with your post and we need to keep positive... but how did we let ourselves get sucker punched by England?

We knew the rush defence was coming and we should have known they would throw it wide. That and the apparent lack of passion shown is what disappoints me, but this team is always going to be a roller-coaster ride to support so we might as well try to enjoy it.

 

[DPK]

Roller coasters are fun, losing to England sucks balls...

 

[Richard D. James]

thats true it does suck... I don't think I could stomach reading the pommy press atm.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Me either Richard. The OZ and UK press love piling on whoever loses between us. But this team is a roller coaster ride and on the weekend we got a hard lesson, which hopefully the boys will learn from. Our footy has been getting gradually better since mid year and this was a bit of a correction (in market parlance) and a reminder that we aren't the finished article yet.

 

[farva]

That England team looked bloody good.

Had they played like that for both halves last week they could have well rolled the ABs. They played for 2 halves against us and did roll us.

Yeah sure its 5 vs 2. But its 5 at home and in form. We are also in form but our game plan was wrong. I think we were beaten leading up to the game with all the concentration on the scrum. England used that and beat us in an area we didnt consider - the backs. We then kicked far too often to try and keep away from penalties created by trying to run it. England didnt play to that game plan and we executed it poorly (its not the way this team operates). Had we thrown the ball wide earlier, we would have been playing better, our confidence would have been up and we probably wouldnt have missed the tackles that then put us on the back foot (because we would have been much more confident).

Lets smash Italy next week by playing our natural game in the backs and then get our confidence back again.

 

[Richard D. James]

Yep, this loss could be very important for the development of these young guys. I think the British press did a number on the guys in the backs, throwing around phrases like "best backline in the world" and words like "genius" in regards to Quade Cooper. Hopefully this loss has shown them that it's still Test Rugby and you still need to grind out wins, especially if your fancy backline moves are not working.

This is also true for the forwards.

 

[Bullrush]

Yep, this loss could be very important for the development of these young guys. I think the British press did a number on the guys in the backs, throwing around phrases like "best backline in the world" and words like "genius" in regards to Quade Cooper. Hopefully this loss has shown them that it's still Test Rugby and you still need to grind out wins, especially if your fancy backline moves are not working.

This is also true for the forwards.

It's not just the British Press pupming your guys up like rockstars.

There's been more than the odd Wallaby fan and poster who have made similiar claims - not to mention the ARU pulling out all stops to keep the marshmellow that is Quade Cooper from going to the NRL. Back then, most of you blokes were saying it would be impossible to win the RWC next year without him.

 

[JJJ]

I'm just sick of watching the Wallabies consistently lose the collisions and get beaten in the ruck every time a team with a decent set of forwards turns up in a certain mood. And England are usually in a certain mood during World Cups. Our pigs aren't small -- they're similarly sized to their opponents most games, in the same numbers (minus a prop every now and then). So why do they keep going backwards?

 

[Groucho]

Mate, I'm too busy trying to forget that we lost to England by a record margin.

Anyway, I reckon we should have a Deans vs Anti-Deans boat race at the EOYdrinks. Settle it once and for all.

I would love to compete in a boat race to decide this matter!

However, I think this Deans vs Anti-Deans model is a rhetorical device deployed by the Anti-Deans camp for positioning purposes. I agree with cyclopath, that the so-called Deans camp consists of people who simply can't accept that Deans is responsible for everything. I'm by no means a Deans cheerleader, although I'm often portrayed that way here.

The Deans camp is also characterized by a double-figure word count, or less, so I'll shut up now.

 

[Gnostic]

So what are you saying? Job done? Good work? There is nothing whatsoever that the coach should do differently? Do you reject any suggestion to the contrary?

On the England match, what is a sucker punch? Did they do something underhanded in order to win? Was the result not a reflection of the way the two teams played? Were the penalties that you consider won the match for England not, on balance, warranted (bearing in mind that at least one of them was for a clear professional foul that likely denied a try)?

What he is saying but simply refuses to just outright say it, is that Deans was thoroughly out thought and out coached, much like he has been in 10 out of 12 games against the ABs.

 

[Gnostic]

You can't say that the kickfests were due to 'law interpretations' but attribute our 'structure' to coaching and players. I think the current law interpretations have a lot to do with the 'fast and loose' style all of the top sides are playing. The Connolly-esque style certainly wouldn't work as well.

And the 'fools from Fox' may be Leaguies but they are a very good barometer of how the middle of the road sports fan is feeling about the state of things. If they are raving about the Wallabies then it can only be a good thing.

Just read this on the SMH blog.

Ealesy, as a fervent Wallaby supporter I've endured years of pain, mostly since your retirement. I understand you were a product of the GPS system. Why is it that our Wallaby forwards to-day lack the mongrel? Do we really need some of those boofs from the NRL to come in to provide a bit of starch? If so we shud let the ARU know and start buying. Otherwise, ARU has lost me as a supporter. It is ironic that in '07 I flew down to Brisbane to watch a game at Suncorp against the AB's. When the Bledislowe came to HK in '08, myself and a whole bunch of mates went across to HK for the game. Symptomatically this year, I was invited over to HK for the game ( a mere 50 minute ferry ride away) yet i chose not to go, not wanting to endure more pain. Maybe you should convince John O'Neill and his cronies we need some of that mongrel from the NRL before more of us revert to watching Lawn Bowls. " A good big man will always beat .......". Fortunately we cud not get the telecast of last saturday's game in the Asia region.
Xavier Chang | Shenzhen, PRC - November 15, 2010, 4:38PM

Like I said when fans that regard themselves as fervent supporters start electing to stay away or turn off you have a problem. It is just me or those I know. Denying it will not make it go away, and saying good riddence (as has been said to me elsewhere) is just plain ridiculous.

 

[PaarlBok]

Didnt the Poms beat you at home earlier in the year? Thats the one that should hurt. Havent watched this test, suppose your fatties got bullied?

 

[barbarian]

Gnostic I can't see how pulling a comment from the SMH blog does anything to help your argument, other than proving there is one other person who feels the way you do. All I will say is I bet you that home test crowd numbers will be higher next year than this year. That is a pretty fair indicator of interest of die hards and middle-of-the-road-ers alike.

 

[Richo]

I think it's equally ridiculous to claim that the Deans era is either a catastrophic failure or a resounding success. No one is claiming the latter, many the former.

Is Deans the perfect coach for Australia? Not by a long shot. Has he brought through some excellent new talent that should position Australia well for the RWC and, more importantly, the five years after? Yes. Are his selections occasionally baffling and his game plan frequently lacking? Yes. Does he get out there, pack the scrums, throw the passes, kick the goals or make the tackles? No, of course not.

You can either decide that the glass is half-full or half-empty, but saying that there's just a dribble of juice in the bottom after all the high points Gagger mentioned is silly.

 

[JJJ]

suppose your fatties got bullied?

Like they'd advertised on craigslist for the privilege.