The Wallaby 12 Conundrum

[ACT Crusader]

Jeez fellas give To'omua a bit of time I reckon. There are a few things he needs to improve on but I think of all the options he has the best foundation and has the smarts to improve his game.

I think he and Kurindrani are a combo to build on for the future. They need to continue playing 12/13 at Super level also.

I agree that the Cooper and To'omua combo also looked good as they played off each other's strengths.

Otherwise keep shuffling and shifting building no combinations and slotting in the next big thing.....

 

[Pfitzy]

To'omua is recovering from a head knock this week ACTC - so potentially he's not right anyway.

Spitballing has its uses. Idiots more quickly identify themselves before it is too late

 

[cyclopath]

Leave Godwin for the European tour.
He hasn't had enough footy since his injury to be Test match hardened.

I agree. He's a great prospect, but I wouldn't chuck anyone, least of all a newbie, into a Test with so little proper footy under heir belt of late. There are others who can play 12 in that Test, get him fully fit and up to speed for Europe.

 

[ACT Crusader]

To'omua is recovering from a head knock this week ACTC - so potentially he's not right anyway.

Spitballing has its uses. Idiots more quickly identify themselves before it is too late

Cheers Pfitzy, that's not good news. Hopefully he recovers quickly.

For a stop gap I'd bring in Horne who was probably unlucky not to be starting on the weekend.

But long term I think To'omua will be critical for OZ.

 

[Dumbledore]

JOC (James O'Connor)

 

[BarneySF]

Taps.

Got his chance to play for the Wallabies through injury in 2012, but deserved to be there initially based on his Super form if I recall. Since then, he has been discarded for reasons unknown.

I think he's injured, so the discussion is probably pointless, but he is a specialist inside centre with the distribution game akin to To'omua, runs well in traffic and is strong defensively. Was also the most consistent performer for the Reds in 2014.

Regardless, Link is adamant on his 12 being a secondary playmaker, so it's really a toss up between To'omua and Lilo to start, and Beale on the bench.

I remember that game against the orcs in 2012 EOYT he had - absolute blinder

 

[lpd]

I haven't seen Kerevi mentioned on here, the kid can play

 

[boyo]

If we have another 12 on a plane to Montevideo then let's consider him.

Isn't it in Uruguay?

 

[Bairdy]

I remember that game against the orcs in 2012 EOYT he had - absolute blinder

Think it was him and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) starting together that day. Completely shut down Tuilagi, which is no small feat considering he carved up two weeks later against Conrad Smith.

Just think Taps has much more to offer at international level.

 

[Biffo]

of the list on the poll, i'd go for Tapuai.

point of interest is that Karmichael Hunt is not among eight candidates for Wallaby 12 in the poll.
i don't think too many would believe that Australian rugby has (at least) eight candidates for 12 who are better than Hunt.

 

[BarneySF]

Think it was him and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) starting together that day. Completely shut down Tuilagi, which is no small feat considering he carved up two weeks later against Conrad Smith.

Just think Taps has much more to offer at international level.

In that game the Badge totally owned Ashton as well IIRC - smashing him at will. Beautiful to watch.

 

[daz]

Obvious bias aside, I really would like to see Mitch given a shot at 12 on the EOYT, however I am not so blinded by admiration that I can't see his weaknesses.

Problem 1: He isn't a prolific try-scorer. If anyone has watched Mitch play, there are two main reasons for this. One is that he positions himself far too shallow and close to the ball carrier, so he quite often is cut-out when the ball is flung wide.

By being cut-out, he then finds he has to support the ball carrier in the ruck, which means that he is completely out of position when the ball is recycled. Which means that he is then required to get involved with the breakdown again. A never ending circle.

His love of contact and unselfish play means that he is not where he needs to be when the ball is in attack. He spends more time at the breakdown than the piggies, which is frustrating. Get the fuck out of there and get into attacking position.

Problem 2: He lacks a bit of pace. I know he is a former 7's player, but he doesn't have that explosive burst of speed that a good 12 should have to bust through the line and burn off the chasers.

Positives? Plenty there. He is a strong bastard and he can get over the gain line with 4 players on his back. Good driving ability.

Defensively he leaves just about everyone behind. He finished the Super Rugby season as one of the top tackle machines at the Rebels. In the line he is near impossible to get past. A huge turnaround from a few years ago, when he had a reputation as a bit of a revolving door.

His linking play is as good as anyone. Quick hands, dancing feet and an awareness of his supporting teammates means he very rarely gets trapped with the ball. I don't know how many try assists he has in his stats, but he set up a huge number of Rebel tries this year. If he was more of a selfish bugger, he might have added a few more meat pies to his tally.

All in all, with a bit more coaching on his positioning, I just have a gut feel the lad could be a very good Wallaby 12. Until he gets a chance though, we will never know.

Just my 2c.

 

[Antony]

Re: Inman, I think if you're going to pick him, you'd want to have a fair bit of pace elsewhere in the backline. Your recent wingers are good players but aren't particularly rapid, and you run the risk of having a fairly pedestrian set of backs. That'll change when Speight gets established, maybe JOC (James O'Connor) comes back, etc.

Same with Finger and probably some of the others, but Inman has more upside anyway.

 

[daz]

Yep, agree with that, and if Mitch was playing 12 we would need to make sure we have speed machines on each wing to take advantage of the linking plays.

Oddly enough, speedsters like Rod Davies and Speight would be ideal working off Mitch's shoulder.

Look at Habana. He is clearly a class above just about everyone, but his success is as a pure finisher, based on the work done by the centres.

Get a speed racer on the wings and let them take advantage of a centre that can get fast ball out to them.

I suspect I could take Phipps, Foley, Inman and Kuridrani as my engine room, but it would be nice to at least see what they could do.

I don't expect any of this to actually happen, but it's a nice little "what-if" dream.

 

[thierry dusautoir]

To'omua was crushing it at 12 last year, he is just in some average but not awful form....he will bounce back

 

[something]

Considering we have our battering ram at 13 in Kurindrani, i think that the Khunt could have a part to play at 12 next year if he gets played there for reds - might not if Graham decides to play him at 15 and Taps gets the nod at 12, but taps has been playing at 13 under graham.... not a good thing

 

[Tomikin]

I think that for the good of the Wallabies (and I think both players) Bernie needs to play Lilo at 10 and To'omua at 12, TK at 13. This will give To'omua more time at 12, and I still think he is our best 12 by some way ATM, and if he is going to take the kicks to sidelines for the Wallabies get him to do it for the Brumbies.

As a side note, I wouldn't mind seeing AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) at 12 before say Inman and Horne, just a better player with more experience.

 

[Wilson]

I think that for the good of the Wallabies (and I think both players) Bernie needs to play Lilo at 10 and To'omua at 12, TK at 13. This will give To'omua more time at 12, and I still think he is our best 12 by some way ATM, and if he is going to take the kicks to sidelines for the Wallabies get him to do it for the Brumbies.

As a side note, I wouldn't mind seeing AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) at 12 before say Inman and Horne, just a better player with more experience.

I really hope he does, though he's been hesitant to in the past. Not sure why though, I think it offers better balance having lilo at 10 and To'omua at 12.

 

[wamberal]

If Lilo ever gets back to top form, he could start at either 10 or 12.

 

[Train Without a Station]

I can't understand the conundrum.

To'omua ticks all the boxes of required skills for a 12. He has put in some indifferent performances at test level this year, yes. In 2013 outside Quade he put in the best performances we have seen from a 12 since Giteau played outside Larkham.

The fact of the matter is there has been no stand out 12 that has shown they are up to test match level (soz Kurtley) so why would we consider replacing him? Godwin looked good in 2013, but has given no indication in 2014 that he would be any better. Tapuai looked good for the Wallabies in 2012 and his not done much since. Lilo is not worth talking about. Kurtley is Kurtley. And Inman will never be an option as long as Kurindrani is our first choice 13.

If somebody does something worth promotion to the Wallabies let's discuss them. But discussing players on the basis that our best credentialed option has to be dropped is pointless. If nobody is better he has to be retained.