The Wallabies Thread

[mudskipper]

There have been years passed when I've called for Cooper over Foley, but I struggle to see how anyone who has watched them both this year could make that call.

I understand but last year was terrible and super rugby form shows no improvement... and people think we dont need guys like dominGe forwards like Fardy to help the inzide backs,,, go figure...madness

 

[upthereds#!]

interesting larkhams take on fardy exclusion. I agree that he is the form no.6, thereby cheikas argument that if a leaving player is a starter then he gets picked means that fardy should be there. HOWEVER, turns out Fardy will probably leave in august, BEFORE the RC....so really whats the point of having himhere against fiji, scotland and italy. Fair call. Still surprised BOTH hanigan and dempsey got to be the 6's, with no room for RHP, and Hardwick will be the reserve 7, even though he is behind hodgson at the force and not actually a specialist 7.

I vote higs @8 and timani @6.

 

[mudskipper]

Can easily say, based on anything this year, I disagree with all of this and suggests you struggle to watch Super Rugby games with an analytical eye.

Choosing between poor and bad... i just want what wasnt 2016 buddy... as Mr Poor cant link with the best backs player in australian rugby can I have Mr Bad please

 

[mudskipper]

interesting larkhams take on fardy exclusion. I agree that he is the form no.6, thereby cheikas argument that if a leaving player is a starter then he gets picked means that fardy should be there. HOWEVER, turns out Fardy will probably leave in august, BEFORE the RC..so really whats the point of having himhere against fiji, scotland and italy. Fair call. Still surprised BOTH hanigan and dempsey got to be the 6's, with no room for RHP, and Hardwick will be the reserve 7, even though he is behind hodgson at the force and not actually a specialist 7.

I vote higs @8 and timani @6.

RC is way off its about the transfer of grunt and courage culture and commitment... its not young and pretty talent ., we got our latte backs to do thst crap

 

[cyclopath]

Choosing between poor and bad. i just want what wasnt 2016 buddy. as Mr Poor cant link with the best backs player in australian rugby can I have Mr Bad please

Well, strangely, the Waratahs seem to be able to score tries quite well against NZ teams, in fact better than all Aus teams against them and overall.

The four highest scores against New Zealand teams by Australian franchises were all inflicted by the Waratahs, albeit in losing causes.
NSW average a healthy 27.75 points against Kiwi opposition, significantly higher than the Reds (17.33), Brumbies (14.75), Rebels (13.8) and Force (11.25).

From the Fairfax site by Tom Decent.

So yeah, I think you're dwelling in the past, rather than this year as far as attacking abilities go. But you'd know those numbers if you'd watched games.
And I'm not your buddy.

 

[MarkJ]

HOWEVER, turns out Fardy will probably leave in august, BEFORE the RC

Think that just shows that Cheikha had no intention of picking him for the RC so the ARU are giving Fardy an early release to save a few bucks

 

[mudskipper]

Well, strangely, the Waratahs seem to be able to score tries quite well against NZ teams, in fact better than all Aus teams against them and overall.

...

From the Fairfax site by Tom Decent.

So yeah, I think you're dwelling in the past, rather than this year as far as attacking abilities go. But you'd know those numbers if you'd watched games.
And I'm not your buddy.

Waratahs have had 40 points odd put on them from every NZ team this year ... so I guess the wallabies need their loosies and playmarker... fairytales
So the Wallabies will need to score more than 40+ points to beat the ABs with Chiekas first pick pucker team

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

The game evolves and so do positions. This is one of my bug bares with Australian rugby, we used to be innovators and praised for being different. Now players are criticized for doing so. Where some teams love a point of difference one player brings, we see it as a negative.

What is a traditional 7??? People do realise a fetcher as a 7 is only about 20years old? As strange and earth shattering this might be to people but Richie McCaw and George Smith were pioneers of the position being played this way. Not some guy playing in the 50s, 60s, 70s.

Do we know what a traditional lock looks like? I do. Rob Simmons, Sam Carter not Maro Itoje.
A traditional hooker? Stephen Moore not Dane Coles or Agustin Creevy
A traditional prop? Rabah Slimani not Maco Vunipola
A traditional 8? It surely isn't what Kieran Read is offering
Beauden Barrett isn't a traditional 10, Aaron Smith not a traditional 9
A traditional winger used to be some skinny fast guy until Lomu turned up.
A traditional 12 was a big crash ball merchant

I think I should pull you up on the 7 comment. I've been watching international rugby since the early 80's and fetchers have been around since at least then. My earliest memories of watching the Wallabies involved guys like Chris Roche, who was a pretty classical openside. After that we had guys like Jeff Miller and David Wilson who were also fetchers before George Smith came on the scene. The Kiwis had Michael Jones and Josh Kronfeld, the French Laurent Cabannes and the Poms fellas like Neil Back.

In any case, I believe you need certain skill sets in a rugby team and to a degree the number on the back doesn't mean as much as the outcome the skills generate. For instance, I believe in the centres you need a passer and a straight running crasher. It doesn't matter a great deal whether they wear 12 or 13 on their backs so long as those skills are present.

I totally agree that the game evolves and positions sometimes change, but the game isn't that radically different and there are certain fundamentals that I think you've still got to have. For example, you can't have tight forwards who are great around the park and can't function in the set piece at an elite level. At test level, where the game is a bit more conventional and conservative those blokes get found out (e.g Ben Alexander -- scored heaps of tries but got folded up at scrum time constantly).

 

[cyclopath]

Waratahs have had 40 points odd put on them from every NZ team this year . so I guess the wallabies need their loosies and playmarker. fairytales
So th Wallabies will need to score more than 40+ points to beat the ABs with Chiekas first pick pucker team.

1. You brought up the attacking issues, so I was answering to that. Given you've changed the subject now I guess you had no real data to back up your previous posts, so put up a straw man.
2. I didn't say the Waratahs were playing well overall, given their inability to play a good, full 80 mins and to maintain focus on defensive structure. I said their attack was good. These are 2 different concepts.

Now, if you were actually talking about an overall game, the defensive abilities of the players would be a relevant metric, but you weren't. At least I think you weren't, as not even Google translate can make head or tail of your post.

But, there is that old adage about arguing with.........well, I'll just leave it at that.

 

[mudskipper]

1. You brought up

Best not quote stats that dont have positive results in a game that is about points....
Enjoy watching the past this coming June...

 

[cyclopath]

Best not quote stats that dont have positive results in a game that is about points..
Enjoy watching the past this coming June.

I think I'll just apply this to all your posts in future. Honestly, a 2 year old has better grasp of reasoning and logic than you.

 

[mudskipper]

Easy... Better thIs than quoting tah half truths...

 

[cyclopath]

Easy. Better thIs than quoting tah half truths.

 

[USARugger]

Don't drink and post, kids.

 

[Micheal]

1. You brought up the attacking issues, so I was answering to that. Given you've changed the subject now I guess you had no real data to back up your previous posts, so put up a straw man.
2. I didn't say the Waratahs were playing well overall, given their inability to play a good, full 80 mins and to maintain focus on defensive structure. I said their attack was good. These are 2 different concepts.

Now, if you were actually talking about an overall game, the defensive abilities of the players would be a relevant metric, but you weren't. At least I think you weren't, as not even Google translate can make head or tail of your post.

But, there is that old adage about arguing with...well, I'll just leave it at that.

Isn't this just a lot of playing the man, not the ball?

 

[USARugger]

Not really.

He addressed his points (the ball), or lack of, before anything else.

Nothing he said was particularly egregious and what else are you really supposed to say in response to the absolute nonsense above him?

Playing the man would be something more along the line of:

"You're a stupid fluffybunny and you make stupid fluffybunny posts you drunk mong"

 

[Joe Blow]

We all know that the Super rugby season has been worse than poor but the hope is there that we can put together a decent 23, maybe even better than decent.
Foley is the guy and Cooper is only there because the cupboard is bare. With Beale presumably involved later in the year then Cooper will need a huge turnaround in form to warrant selection in the 23.
Outside of Foley and Folau its hard to see another Tahs back in the mix to start any time soon.
We really need grunt in our tight 5 and 6 to free up Hooper and presumably Higgers to link with the backs.

 

[fatprop]

I am not sure what we can read into it, but the Fox Sports Podcast talked of chieka having both Timani and Higgers penciled in and competing for the 8 role; and they suggested Hanigan is likely to be 6.

I don't see it myself

 

[upthereds#!]

RC is way off its about the transfer of grunt and courage culture and commitment. its not young and pretty talent ., we got our latte backs to do thst crap

That's what Larkham was saying about it, and I'm sure he has a better idea then any of us, though of course he is obligated to tow a party line.

 

[amirite]

Seeing the NZers innovate the lineout this season it got me wondering:

Why doesn't the 9 throw the ball in?

They are essentially a specialist passer so I assume they could learn to throw with more finesse then the big brutes at 2.

They could also just follow the throw to be in a position to catch / pass once it comes down off the top.

There's no reason you can't do this, but I can't see a clear advantage in the current rule set.

• Firstly, there must be a dummy half at the lineout. So, someone's got to be there anyway. You used to be able to do an insert lineout, but rules changes and now for every man that steps in, one must step out.
• Secondly, there's SO many unique facets of the game the 9 must manage. It'd be a huge ask to add another for no reason.
• Thirdly, much like in basketball shooting and passing are different skillsets because of different factors and movement mechanics. Why do we presume 9s would be a better throwers than 2s off no evidence?

More quick throws and the occasional throw to 1 would be nice to be seen.

It's shitty slow ball. It's literally this simple - if you hit a jumper 5m further back, your backline gets that 5m of extra time and space.

If you want to hit the edge first phase, that 5m is HUGE. The difference between getting off an easy, easy-breezy pass and getting man/ball at the same time.

Hitting 1 or 2 also allows defenders at the tail of the line out to clog up the 9-10 channel.