The Wallabies Thread

[saulityvi]

Indeed, especially if you look at the success of Nonu and Smith for the All Blacks. What made that combination so successful though was Nonu's massive improvement over the years with his passing and footwork. He went from being a blunt instrument to a whole lot more in his career.

And not to forget Conrad being a sneaky motherfucker who hardly ever put foot wrong and even he wasnt the best passer of the ball, knew when he needed to release it to his outside backs.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

And not to forget Conrad being a sneaky motherfucker who hardly ever put foot wrong and even he wasnt the best passer of the ball, knew when he needed to release it to his outside backs.

Definitely. Just about the slickest outside centre to ever play the game. He was also very underrated on defence and especially at the breakdown, where he was like another back rower. That's an often forgotten skill in the modern centre.

 

[Brumbieman]

In the Dwyer system, the ball player plays at 13. The argument is that this gets a playmaker closer to the outside channels, where a break is more lilely to occur. The first receiver then has the choice of passing to the crash 12 or to the wider receiver. In fairness to Dwyer this isn't particularly about Kuridrani. He championed the system before several first-tier nations took it up.

It certainly isn't Gatlandball, as some have suggested here. It's about playing a wider game. Dwyer's philosophy of attacking rugby is as far from Warren Gatland's as it is possible to be.

Its the model we used through the 90's, and especially around 2001.

We then switched to the playmaking 12 and direct 13, at the same time as NZ went the other way with Nonu and Smith.

5 Bledisloes for us and then nothing. Nothing for them and then a century long run of Bledisloes.

I've been pushing for a return to this style for 5 years. When we had Cooper at 10, we should have the direct 12 and then put O'Connor at 13, for Cooper to hit with a long flat ball, to a flying Beiber with Beale/Mitchell/Digby et al running different ANGLED supporting lines.

That prospect would have given any opposing 13 an upset stomach.

 

[fatprop]

With Foley being the 10, we need a ball playing 12 outside him. He plays flatter and takes on the line and contact and the 12 can step in when he is at the bottom of a ruck

With Cooper, a running back option was a reasonable option as he didn't want to take contact, digby played that role quite well

 

[barbarian]

We then switched to the playmaking 12 and direct 13, at the same time as NZ went the other way with Nonu and Smith.

5 Bledisloes for us and then nothing. Nothing for them and then a century long run of Bledisloes.
.

Haha that's a bit like saying 'Prince had four number 1 albums before 1988, but then I was born and he hasn't released one since.'

I'd also wager Conrad Smith isn't really a 'ballplayer' in the same way Giteau, Barnes, JOC (James O'Connor), Beale etc. have been. You couldn't throw him into 10, he never slots into first receiver at any time.

He isn't a super-skilful player, but he just has a great game awareness and the ability to use those around him really well.
.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

No definitely not a ball player like a second 10, but a good passer and offloader in tight spaces. He also had excellent vision.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Its the model we used through the 90's, and especially around 2001.

We then switched to the playmaking 12 and direct 13, at the same time as NZ went the other way with Nonu and Smith.

You could make a good argument with Little at 13. He was a super skilful centre and had a great pass. Timmy was no slouch in that department though and was hardly a crasher, even though he was a brick wall in defence. When Dan Herbert came on the scene he was that classic bruising centre and did it very well. I don't think he ever played at 12 though did he? You're on the money where it comes to Nathan Grey though. Route one every time where he was concerned.

In any case, I don't know that the numbers of the backs make a great deal of difference. For me it's about the balance of the rapier and the sledgehammer.

 

[ACT Crusader]

Brumbieman - the interesting thing about your argument and the Bledisloe is that we won back the Bledisloe with the two playmaker inside backs (Spencer and Aaron Mauger) and the more direct and abrasive centre (Umaga). The ABs had been building that combination for a year or so after going with a sustained period of two more direct midfielders (Alatini and Ieremia).

If I recall Larkham, Little, Herbert was pretty good.

 

[Viking]

Brumbieman - the interesting thing about your argument and the Bledisloe is that we won back the Bledisloe with the two playmaker inside backs (Spencer and Aaron Mauger) and the more direct and abrasive centre (Umaga). The ABs had been building that combination for a year or so after going with a sustained period of two more direct midfielders (Alatini and Ieremia).

If I recall Larkham, Little, Herbert was pretty good.

Yeah but any back-line with Larkham at 10 was a good one

 

[Groucho]

Yeah but any back-line with Larkham at 10 was a good one

Little Herbert Larkham sounds like an old-school bantamweight boxer.

 

[TSR]

Yeah but any back-line with Larkham at 10 was a good one

Larkham was a great 10, but your comment seems to downplay the abilities of Little & Herbert, but of whom were pretty fair players in their own right.

 

[Ash]

Herbert played a few tests at 12 right at the tail end of his career, inside of Mortlock if I remember correctly.

Herbert was replaced in one of his last tests at 12 by a young Matt Giteau, who came on and threw two passes straight onto the ground.

 

[Ash]

The Brumbies had a lot of middle run centres (when Mortlock was constantly injured) / wingers over the years who Larkham made to look like world beaters.

 

[Groucho]

Herbert played a few tests at 12 right at the tail end of his career, inside of Mortlock if I remember correctly.

Herbert was replaced in one of his last tests at 12 by a young Matt Giteau, who came on and threw two passes straight onto the ground.

He thought he saw crabs.

Most people go crabbing with some cloth on a string, but Giteau showed real commitment from the start.

 

[RugbyReg]

Herbert played a few tests at 12 right at the tail end of his career, inside of Mortlock if I remember correctly.

Herbert was replaced in one of his last tests at 12 by a young Matt Giteau, who came on and threw two passes straight onto the ground.

yeah, most of 2002 (under Eddie) Herbie played a number of tests at 12.


v Fra it was 11 Mortlock 12 Herbie 13 Burke 14 Sailor 15 Latham
v Fra it was 11 Mortlock 12 Herbie 13 Burke 14 Sailor 15 Latham
v NZ it was 11 Mortlock 12 Herbie 13 Burke 14 Tune 15 Latham
v SAF it was 11 Mortlock 12 Herbie 13 Burke 14 Tune 15 Latham
v NZ it was 11 Mortlock 12 Herbie 13 Burke 14 Tune 15 Latham
v SAF it was 11 Mortlock 12 Herbie 13 Burke 14 Tune 15 Latham
v ARG it was 11 Mortlock 12 Herbie 13 Burke 14 Tune 15 Rogers
v IRL it was 11 Staniforth 12 Herbie 13 Mortlock 14 Sailor 15 Burke
v ENG it was 11 Mortlock 12 Flatley 13 Herbert 14 Sailor 15 Burke*
v IRL it was 11 Staniforth 12 Herbie 13 Burke 14 Sailor 15 Mortlock

That England test was Gits's first test and the Ireland test was Herbie's last.

 

[Ash]

Gees, I'd forgotten that Burke played 13 for the Wallabies at the end of his career too, I remember it for the Tahs though.

Mortlock at 15 and Burke at 13 just feels a bit weird.

 

[Lindommer]

Those were the days when Eddie was trying to reinvent rugby: playing champion players out of position and not giving a shit about scrums. And look where that got the Wallabies.

Selection was one of The Parrot's strongest points, trying to shoehorn the best 15 players into one team's always problematical.

 

[TOCC]

Those were the days when Eddie was trying to reinvent rugby: playing champion players out of position and not giving a shit about scrums. And look where that got the Wallabies.

To extra time in a RWC GF?

 

[Groucho]

To extra time in a RWC GF?

Eddie's theories were disproved by him failing to consistently defeat the All Blacks. Oh, how I pine for those days when we consistently defeated the All Blacks, and the rugby theories that made it possible, so we could implement them now.

 

[wamberal]

Gees, I'd forgotten that Burke played 13 for the Wallabies at the end of his career too, I remember it for the Tahs though.

Mortlock at 15 and Burke at 13 just feels a bit weird.

Mortlock played 15 for Gordon.