The Wallabies Thread

[Sword of Justice]

People are still bashing Foley as not being good enough, despite winning every game he started bar 1 this year, out-kicking Carter in the final, and scoring the same number of points as Carter through the tournament.

I think they're saying that he is not a world class ten, irrespective of his kicking, not that he is a bad player.

The reality is that we don't really have anyone better that can organise a back line, so persevere we must.

 

[Sword of Justice]

Just my opinion, but looking to 2016 and beyond, the Wallabies will not dominate other top nations (read ABs) if we persist with the likes of Mumm, McCalman and probably Simmons and Carter. None of them have sufficient impact to turn a game. We need more locks like Douglas (Neville and Coleman) and better back up at 8, like Vaea, Timani, Holloway or Cottrill. All players who will make their presence known and felt. And hopefully Skelton can improve all aspects of his game as well. Just his size, if he plays anywhere near it, is rather intimidating.

Similar to my post above, who could possibly step in and be better than McCalman at test level as an 8 man right now. I understand that he's not as good as Reid but he can ruck well, tackle well, run reasonably well and compete in the line out. No one else in Australian Rugby who plays 8 can actually do all of those things/do all of them at his standard.

Simmons and Carter are two of our best options at lock at test level as well, when considering the engine room. Neville couldn't hold down a starting spot at the Rebels - his enforcer role has developed in the NRC, Coleman is pretty green. Other than Jones, who is a 6 playing at lock sometimes, who else is actually developed enough to play for the Wallabies? Douglas was great in and around the ruck and on defense but he hardly ran the ball at all, which is why we saw Simmons pick up his efforts here.

When it comes to players 'having their presence felt', the All Blacks don't have any X-factor players like Timani or Vaea, they are almost all balanced players across forwards duties.

Test rugby is pure rugby. You can't get away with players who are immense in some departments but liabilities in other core duties. Deans, McKenzie, and Cheika haven't persevered with the likes of McCalman and Simmons for the fun of it.

Do agree with your synopsis of Mumm though.

 

[southsider]

I think they're saying that he is not a world class ten, irrespective of his kicking, not that he is a bad player.

The reality is that we don't really have anyone better that can organise a back line, so persevere we must.

Yea not a world class 10, I'd even argue at the moment that carter is the only one you'd consider world class, maybe sexton, possibly pollard in the future.

Larkham, wilkinson, merhtens, carter.......foley. One of these things is not like the other

Still a good player though...........

 

[swingpass]

Jack D needs to learn how to concentrate, all of the time, on every kick, at goal and for touch; on every pass and every defensive effort.

 

[Bullrush]

If Fardy can continue on his form from the semi and be that guy every time he pulls on a Wallaby jersey, I think the need to have 'Pooper' is gone. He was an absolute beast in that game. It wasn't just about making tackles, he was making crunching, driving, dominant tackles. He made turn-overs and was all over the break-down. It was the first time I've seen him play like Kaino - not Kaino-lite but actually like Kaino.

Pair that with Pocock being Pocock and I think Hooper becomes redundant. He doesn't make huge impact on the breakdown (going from ForceFan's analysis) and he isn't making turn-overs.

Then you can take McCalman or Vaea depending on what you want to run with.

The Hulk - just smash everything.
Cap America - the guy who does everything pretty bloody well.

 

[Antony]

If Fardy can continue on his form from the semi and be that guy every time he pulls on a Wallaby jersey, I think the need to have 'Pooper' is gone. He was an absolute beast in that game. It wasn't just about making tackles, he was making crunching, driving, dominant tackles. He made turn-overs and was all over the break-down. It was the first time I've seen him play like Kaino - not Kaino-lite but actually like Kaino.

Pair that with Pocock being Pocock and I think Hooper becomes redundant. He doesn't make huge impact on the breakdown (going from ForceFan's analysis) and he isn't making turn-overs.

Then you can take McCalman or Vaea depending on what you want to run with.

The Hulk - just smash everything.
Cap America - the guy who does everything pretty bloody well.

I reckon they'd be absolutely mad to change the back-row, unless McMahon hits some kind of crazy new height.

 

[topgun]

Simmons and Carter are two of our best options at lock at test level as well, when considering the engine room. Neville couldn't hold down a starting spot at the Rebels - his enforcer role has developed in the NRC, Coleman is pretty green. Other than Jones, who is a 6 playing at lock sometimes, who else is actually developed enough to play for the Wallabies? Douglas was great in and around the ruck and on defense but he hardly ran the ball at all, which is why we saw Simmons pick up his efforts here.

When it comes to players 'having their presence felt', the All Blacks don't have any X-factor players like Timani or Vaea, they are almost all balanced players across forwards duties.

Simmons and Carter aren't even on the radar for anything but the set piece. Carter has never impressed me at all and Simmons fills his own role well but no frills. Douglas was probably our second best pig behind Pocock.

I have no idea what prompts this 'Jones is a 6' talk, It's absolute bollocks as far as the role he plays. He's 198cm tall, 2cm below Horwill. He has incredible workrate, tackles carries etc. and took the most lineout of any Australian in the Super Rugby season. Just because he plays 6 in the NRC in order to give Jeffries some game time doesn't say anything about his ability as a lock. Anyway it's a flog and he is a legitimate option.

I suspect as far as internationally,Coleman will be much like Douglas, he'll take time to mature but will be a mainstay eventually. Rory arnold should not be forgotten as an option given further time at Super Rugby level, he certainly packs a punch and is constantly on the improve. Timani is not a long term lock and I expect him to return to 8 soon enough, He and Vaea will joust for their spots for the remainder of their careers i presume. I can't understand why there is so much hype about Vaea and very little on Lopeti the defiler.

Keep and eye on Blake Enever and Sam Jeffries in the future, Lousi could become useful, but fails to qualify for selection for another 2 years

 

[Pfitzy]

Jack D needs to learn how to concentrate, all of the time, on every kick, at goal and for touch; on every pass and every defensive effort.

Another kid who looks like he was a bit bigger and faster (and uglier!) than everyone else, and therefore didn't have to push himself as much as a lad. Can be hard to learn. Needs that top 2% in order and a solid Super season. Might even be a couple of years away after that in order to get himself right.

Fabulous boot though and big lad.

 

[Sword of Justice]

Simmons and Carter aren't even on the radar for anything but the set piece. Carter has never impressed me at all and Simmons fills his own role well but no frills. Douglas was probably our second best pig behind Pocock.

Mate when you start selling short the importance of set piece you're playing with fire.

Scrum is meat, line out is potatoes (think that's the right order), everything else is gravy.

 

[Highlander35]

Get the Governator in maybe?

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[HJ Nelson]

Well, given he's in a Brumbies jersey, there would no doubt be more recent pics of him in the Vikings outfit, but yeah, he does look to be carrying extra weight. Doesn't seem to affect his effectiveness on the ground, either ball in hand or in defense. His biggest weakness is, as Cyclopath pointed out, his lack of jumping capability in the lineout.

These are from last weekend. I agree it didn't seem to hamper his effectiveness.

 

[Bullrush]

I reckon they'd be absolutely mad to change the back-row, unless McMahon hits some kind of crazy new height.

Go and take a look at the ruck stats on the home page from the final. Hooper had the lowest number of involvements out of all the starting flankers apart from Kaino who played 20mins less than Hooper and made 1 less ruck than him.
The pre-game analysis had him with just 0.5 turn-overs won per game.

The Pooper is over-rated IMO. The Farcock is the real danger and someone like Vaea could have a huge impact. Hooper could be a great bench option.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Listening to Cheika when he arrived back in Sydney tonight, he said that while he will be continuing to develop the team he has, everything will also have an eye towards 2019 RWC. I won't be at all surprised if some left field selections occur next year - at least to be included in the wider squad. I think he put to bed the thought that 2019 doesn't count.

 

[Gnostic]

I think they're saying that he is not a world class ten, irrespective of his kicking, not that he is a bad player.

The reality is that we don't really have anyone better that can organise a back line, so persevere we must.

WTF is the KPI/pre-requisite to be "world class". It appears to me to be an arbitrary moveable goal post set to "prove" an argument rather than a genuine critique of a player's strengths and weaknesses.

My biggest criticism of Foley was the inconsistency and limited kicking game he had, but that has largely been addressed, but improvements can always be made. He takes the ball to the line and is a genuine risk with ball in hand, is a reliable distributor (but far from the best passer of the ball) and the best defending 10 in Australia (To'omua is not a 10 IMO and even though a more dominant tackler he doesn't have the completion rate of Foley).

I do not understand the constant harping criticism of him. I support reasoned legitimate critique, but this seems more than a little baseless.

The biggest problem I see Foley having in 2016, 17 and beyond is the high risk decision to play in Japan and have no off-season. It has broken so many players in the past and is a massive risk.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Foley improved during the RWC, no doubt about that. But imo his biggest weakness is that he rarely creates opportunities for his backline colleagues to break a defensive line open. In fact, I don't think I saw an occasion in the whole RWC where he, or Matt Giteau for that matter, was able to unlock the opposition defense as a 'world class' No 10 should be able.

On his tackling abilities, he certainly has improved over previous years, but to my mind he is really not in Matt To'omua's class in terms of impact or completion rate.

 

[Marcelo]

But imo his biggest weakness is that he rarely creates opportunities for his backline colleagues to break a defensive line open. In fact, I don't think I saw an occasion in the whole RWC where he, or Matt Giteau for that matter, was able to unlock the opposition defense as a 'world class' No 10 should be able.

 

[jman]

Foley looks 10x better when Beale is on the field they really have a good combo.

Without Beale though he looks very average, Folau doesn't have the nous to inject himself nor does Giteau for that matter, so all the playmaking responsibility falls back on him.

This is where the balance of the team is crucial. My view is that the other playmaker should be Beale at FB with Folau to the wing and we go for a more traditional IC.

 

[KOB1987]

Foley looks 10x better when Beale is on the field they really have a good combo.

Without Beale though he looks very average, Folau doesn't have the nous to inject himself nor does Giteau for that matter, so all the playmaking responsibility falls back on him.

This is where the balance of the team is crucial. My view is that the other playmaker should be Beale at FB with Folau to the wing and we go for a more traditional IC.

I like this idea and I also think To'omua fits the mould of the traditional 12. So not a lot of tinkering required I don't think.


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[Sully]

Yeah but except for unlocking that defence what has he done for us?

 

[Pfitzy]

Oh NO Sully - that was all Beale!

I mean, when has Foley even looked remotely like Larkham? LARKHAM was World Class. Did it all himself. Well him and that Gregan guy... oh and I see some old bloke called Horan played a bit at 12 during that period. And some other jokers called Herbert, Roff, Tune.

And does anyone remember if a "Matt Burke" was any good as a fullback? Says here he has nearly 900 Test points, but I find that hard to believe if Larkham was out there at the same time.

Larkham had to drag these losers kicking and screaming to a RWC title, so I guess Foley will just have to make do with being less than "world class".

Give me fucking strength...

I think they're saying that he is not a world class ten, irrespective of his kicking, not that he is a bad player.

Not aimed at you SoJ: but I would love it if they would define what they mean by this "world class" bullshit. Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?

Its a fucking myth, is the problem. Mostly put forward by people whose own selection was proven to be not better, and often far worse.

Foley's kicking game: added 15 metres distance to his general field kicking compared to start of the year. Could be better, sure.

Foley's goal kicking: improved out of sight. Consistency is the key of course, but even "world class" players like Carter miss the odd one.

Foley's passing: short passing game currently has no peer in Australia in terms of execution and work under pressure at the line. Long passing game is not often examined because he does most of his work in traffic. If you'll turn your attention to the screens now:

So they can probably all ram that "world class" shit up to the third knuckle in their petulant arses. It might at least stop them speaking, or muffle it to a suitable level.