The Wallabies Thread

[Brumby Runner]

One other aspect re the props that is worth a mention also. The Reds and the Brumbies had the two strongest scrums in Super Rugby this year and last. When we were scraping the barrel due to injuries for Bledisloe 1, Cheika goes to one of the weaker, or failing, scrums to look for a replacement who comes off the bench more regularly than he starts.


Anyone with a bit of nous would look to the successful scrums first for a replacement in those circumstances. Reds backup props (Smith twins) are excellent players but must have eligibility questions about them not to have been used. Nic Mayhew and Les Makin at the Brumbies never saw a weakening of the scrum when they came on later in the game. Nic is off to NZ as alluded to above, but Makin is a ready made replacement if we are looking for a THP, certainly a huge step up on Ainsley. He is strong as an ox and has good presence around the ground as well.

Failing using the NZ based players, Makin should be ahead of Ainsley if further replacements are required.

I am more and more convinced that Cheika has very little in the way of nous when it comes to player selections.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Smith would be eligible. Lomax wants to play for the All Blacks.

Ala'alatoa and Mayhew would have confirmed their availability for selection to NZ rugby only by signing a NZ contract.

Never one to rock the boat, eh BH?

The Samu and Shield situations show that the NZRU can be negotiated with if circumstances require.

 

[Derpus]

Never one to rock the boat, eh BH?

The Samu and Shield situations show that the NZRU can be negotiated with if circumstances require.

They have to be signed for an Australian team, either now or in the future.

No one was really questioning the team selection pre-match. Indeed, that is part of the problem. That was, minus Tupou and Sio, our best team.

 

[Braveheart81]

Never one to rock the boat, eh BH?

The Samu and Shield situations show that the NZRU can be negotiated with if circumstances require.

Sure, but would you for those players? With Tupou and Sio's injuries on Saturday Michael Ala'alatoa would have been a good edition to the 23.

Ordinarily he'd be our fourth best tight head prop.

Mayhew would be somewhere up there but wouldn't be in our 23 and possibly not in the squad with everyone healthy.

Is it really worth changing our policies etc. for players who you wouldn't select if everyone was available?

 

[Braveheart81]

One other aspect re the props that is worth a mention also. The Reds and the Brumbies had the two strongest scrums in Super Rugby this year and last. When we were scraping the barrel due to injuries for Bledisloe 1, Cheika goes to one of the weaker, or failing, scrums to look for a replacement who comes off the bench more regularly than he starts.


Anyone with a bit of nous would look to the successful scrums first for a replacement in those circumstances. Reds backup props (Smith twins) are excellent players but must have eligibility questions about them not to have been used. Nic Mayhew and Les Makin at the Brumbies never saw a weakening of the scrum when they came on later in the game. Nic is off to NZ as alluded to above, but Makin is a ready made replacement if we are looking for a THP, certainly a huge step up on Ainsley. He is strong as an ox and has good presence around the ground as well.

I agree that Makin is worth a look but I'm not sure about the rest of your point about the Brumbies and Reds. The first choice Brumbies players are in the side or injured, the first choice Reds players were injured or still coming back from suspension. Their next two players are ineligible. If Sio doesn't come back, Cheika should strongly consider bringing Slipper in because we need him.

When you break it down to Cheika selecting Ainsley over Makin, I'm not sure you can come to the conclusion that Cheika's selections are terrible.

 

[Brumby Runner]

They have to be signed for an Australian team, either now or in the future.

No one was really questioning the team selection pre-match. Indeed, that is part of the problem. That was, minus Tupou and Sio, our best team.

Only because that is the ARU policy. Can be changed at the stroke of a pen.

As far as the best team is concerned, it was certainly weakened by the replacement of Sio and Tupou. What that illustrates though is that we are very short on quality props when there is one or two injuries to cover.

Hindsight will always throw a light on other aspects too. It was a huge tactical blunder for Cheika to include TPN without the benefit of seeing how his form was, and Hooper and DHP coming back from injuries. None of the three contributed positively to the side, and I think that each one of them was queried by posters here beforehand. What Cheika must do now is learn from those mistakes, but I am less than confident that any of them will be replaced for Bledisloe 2.

 

[Braveheart81]

The majority of people rated Hooper as our 3rd best player on the night.

 

[Derpus]

What the fuck was the go with the lineout anyway. We haven't had problems like that in ages. And suddenly we lose nearly every single linout in the match? I don't get it. Why wern't Ireland able to do that to us? They are noted and effective line-out technicians.

 

[Braveheart81]

I think it was a huge mistake to keep trying to play high tempo in the lineouts after we had a few losses.

It was a reasonable plan to think we're going to step up and get the ball in quickly once there but after a couple of losses we had to change tack rather than just try and go higher tempo again.

The All Blacks had largely worked out where the ball was going and were using the fact that we were trying to take those quick tempo throws by encroaching across our space which wouldn't have been able to continue if we'd slowed it down and reset rather than just throwing the ball in to them.

E.g. this is unlikely to end well.

 

[Derpus]

^^^^
I feel like there is a rule against that eh

 

[Rebels3]

Ainsley decision is a strange one, he was clearly not even the best TH at the Rebels all season. The decision to have him in the squad i could justify for experience, but in no way has he warranted or good enough to be even near selection at this stage in his career. Infact not one prop who sits on a Super bench should be up for selection unless there is massive amounts of injuries. Makin and Mayhew aren't upto standard as well. Robertson i believe has come on this year, but he is very suspect to players that just monster him in size.

The hooking issue is weird. Personally i didn't think TPN was as terrible as some have mentioned, Latu was shocking however, although his form more than warranted selection. I'd be happy to stick with these two again, if not Fainga'a should get a look in, he has something a little special about him and i believe could be an international standard hooker.

 

[Rebels3]

The scrum will improve this week if Tupou and Sio come into the squad, suddenly there is parity. The lineout i am not as confident in, those calling for Simmons obviously didn't watch how disastrous the lineout remained once he came on. It was predominately a throwing/communication issue and won't matter who is jumping if we don't get this right.

My eyes however are going to be turned to Foley, i am not calling for him to be dropped, but with the return of To'omua another ordinary performance and the vultures will be out. He needs to relinquish some duties to help his game, even the 22 drop out 2mins before half time should of gone to hodge and should of been hacked 50m upfield with focus on a strong defensive line.

First phase off set piece needs to be seriously looked at. Everything was played at the line against the extremely quick line speed of the AB's, playing at the line is great but it needs to be done with variety, some kicks in behind, some deep second phase block plays, some crash ball, everything was over elaborate

 

[wamberal]

It beats me why Hodge did not take the long clearing kicks? Foley is feeble.

 

[RoffsChoice]

The biggest issue in my mind is that some key players (TPN, Tui, Genia, DHP) were lacking match fitness, and others (Hodge, Tui, Ainsley at LHP) are being played out of position. Rushing guys back and picking guys out of position just to fit the talent in isn't going to work against the best team in the world, even when they have one of the worst halves of rugby this decade.

 

[Tomikin]

We have a real problem atm with our available props. It is a problem of the ARU's making and can be fixed overnight by the ARU if they are at all interested in how the Wallabies will fare in Bledisloe 2.

There are at least four good eligible props playing Super Rugby (or will be in 2019) in New Zealand; Toby Smith, Nic Mayhew, Michael Ala'alatoa, and Tyrel Lomax. Simply extend the selection base to include any Aus eligible players in Super Rugby and we have immediately provided sufficient potential backup for our present injury woes. Such a move would probably have longer term benefits as well as younger players of promise might be more inclined to play in NZ where they could look forward to better coaching and development than to move to Japan or Europe. The Wallabies would then have an expanded and better prepared pool of players to select from.

Lomax surely hasnt kicked on where he is that great a prop.. I remember thinking his the next big thing but his meh

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[RoffsChoice]

I refuse to rate a prop under 25. That's like requiring 10 years experience for an entry level position.

 

[Brumby Runner]

The majority of people rated Hooper as our 3rd best player on the night.

Not likely BH. Read the comments in the game thread for a real indication of how he rated.

 

[Brumby Runner]

The scrum will improve this week if Tupou and Sio come into the squad, suddenly there is parity. The lineout i am not as confident in, those calling for Simmons obviously didn't watch how disastrous the lineout remained once he came on. It was predominately a throwing/communication issue and won't matter who is jumping if we don't get this right.

My eyes however are going to be turned to Foley, i am not calling for him to be dropped, but with the return of To'omua another ordinary performance and the vultures will be out. He needs to relinquish some duties to help his game, even the 22 drop out 2mins before half time should of gone to hodge and should of been hacked 50m upfield with focus on a strong defensive line.

First phase off set piece needs to be seriously looked at. Everything was played at the line against the extremely quick line speed of the AB's, playing at the line is great but it needs to be done with variety, some kicks in behind, some deep second phase block plays, some crash ball, everything was over elaborate

I agree with just about everything R3. Especially the 22m drop out. That very poor effort by Foley laid the foundations for the first ABs' try. I would and am calling for him to be dropped, not just on the back of that kick and the extra poor effort from behind his own goal line to about 5m into the field of play, but because he doesn't offer anything to the team in the way of attack and that coupled with his very sub-standard kicking game just doesn't make him a No 10. Beale at 10 and To'omua at 12 has a lot going for it and if Hodge was also put at 15, then we'd have little or no grounds for complaining about our lack of a kicking game.

 

[Rebels3]

I agree with just about everything R3. Especially the 22m drop out. That very poor effort by Foley laid the foundations for the first ABs' try. I would and am calling for him to be dropped, not just on the back of that kick and the extra poor effort from behind his own goal line to about 5m into the field of play, but because he doesn't offer anything to the team in the way of attack and that coupled with his very sub-standard kicking game just doesn't make him a No 10. Beale at 10 and To'omua at 12 has a lot going for it and if Hodge was also put at 15, then we'd have little or no grounds for complaining about our lack of a kicking game.

Some good options there, id rather To'omua at 10 and keep Beale at 12, sandwich him between To'omua and Hodge and suddenly the defensive frailties are dramatically minimised. Hodge is very suspect under the high ball, if we need a 15 its gotta be Maddocks, DHP or Banks.

I'd like to see

Sio
TPN
Tupou
Coleman
Arnold
Tui
Hooper
Pocock
Genia
To'omua
Koroibete
Beale
Hodge
Maddocks
Banks

Fainga'a/Latu
Robertson
Kepu
Rodda
Samu
Powell
Foley
DHP

Won't happen tho

 

[RoffsChoice]

Much as I love Banks, I'd much prefer to see DHP at fullback this week and either start Petaia and push Hodge to the wing, or start Naivalu. Maddocks to stay on the bench, he had a good impact and I'd like to see that again.

The trouble with Powell atm is that he plays at his best when he feels his position is under threat. He really struggles to perform off the bench, and doesn't do well for the first few starts unless the guy replacing him really outdoes him. He isn't going to be any good for the Wallabies if he keeps this trait and Genia keeps going. I wish Gordon or Ruru was there, but I guess that means we get Phipps on the bench.

Similarly, I want to see Fainga'a get rewarded for his great end to the season (6 games of absolute class), but it would be harsh to throw Latu on the scrap heap for one bad showing. I also don't want to risk Tupou if he still has some niggle.

Personally hope for:
Sio, TPN, Kepu, Coleman, Rodda, Samu, Hooper, Pocock, Genia, To'omua, Koroibete, Beale, Petaia, Hodge, DHP
Latu, Robertson, Ala'alatoa, Tui, Hanigan/Timu, Phipps, Foley, Maddocks.