The Wallabies Thread

[Gnostic]

Deegan might be an outside chance, but it remains to be seen if RA and Cheika are true to their words that Western Force players will be considered for test selection.

Larkham has already said that not playing Super Rugby rules out Quade, do you think they view Twiggy ball differently or just playing politics?

 

[Gnostic]

He should be selected on his overall ability as a 12 which on the basis of what we saw last year in test rugby was easily the best we had available.



I think he is a pretty obvious selection at 12 again this year.



Who exactly is this star 12 you want selected?



No stat tracker seems to do line break assists this year but in terms of total line breaks for the Aussie teams the Tahs have 137 for the season, Rebels 120, Reds 97 and Brumbies 77.

If Beale is the best we can do at 12 may as well not bother playing the Irish. Flaky in attack, occasionally brilliant but just as likely to run his wingers into the sideline and given them a hospital ball, weak defender who occasionally brings out a big tackle or strip. Self interested over indulged recidivist, just what we need to promote in Rugby.

 

[Braveheart81]

If Beale is the best we can do at 12 may as well not bother playing the Irish. Flaky in attack, occasionally brilliant but just as likely to run his wingers into the sideline and given them a hospital ball, weak defender who occasionally brings out a big tackle or strip. Self interested over indulged recidivist, just what we need to promote in Rugby.

Yes, we all know what you think of Kurtley Beale.

I guess we should cancel the series now.

 

[Joe Blow]

Beale was a revelation in Europe as Fardy is proving to be now. I have no idea what happens to these blokes when they return to Super Rugby. He will be played at 12 and will lift.
I don’t like Kerevi in gold at all. While his skill and running ability cannot be questioned he mostly fails to connect with the players around him.
It’s too early for Stewart and the selectors should resist for now with him. Debracini might be a good call for the squad with Hodge the back up 12?

 

[neilc]

Beale was a revelation in Europe as Fardy is proving to be now. I have no idea what happens to these blokes when they return to Super Rugby. He will be played at 12 and will lift.
I don’t like Kerevi in gold at all. While his skill and running ability cannot be questioned he mostly fails to connect with the players around him.
It’s too early for Stewart and the selectors should resist for now with him. Debracini might be a good call for the squad with Hodge the back up 12?

I haven't watched all the Rebels games but got the general impression that Jack Debreczeni was not performing that well week in week out for the Rebels to the extent that Rebs fans wanted Hodge or someone else in the 10 role.

I agree with you about Kerevi, not sure who you put in gold 12 - not exactly a sparkling bunch of options at the moment.

 

[TSR]

I guess it comes down to how much you want to argue over a fait accompli.

Unless we have a change of coach between now and June, Foley and Beale will be at 10 & 12.

And, unless someone mysteriously appears from the clouds, I can’t really see who you could argue should be selected ahead of them on merit. I would be okay with Meakes getting an opportunity - he seems to me the most rounded of contenders - but it won’t happen and I don’t think you could argue it would be a selection on merit. Is he even starting with Rebels now? Edit : Nope - coming off the bench. Seems to me another example of a guy who really developed OS, only to regress back here.

This is not a compliment for either Foley or Beale. Unfortunately it is a sad indicatment on the production line of talent that our coaching and development pathway has turned out.

 

[wamberal]

Maybe the Soup is a bit tougher to excel in than the pale NH equivalents?

 

[sunnyboys]

Maybe in the NH they join better teams with better coaches.

 

[wamberal]

Maybe in the NH they join better teams with better coaches.

Oh yeah. And when they come back here they immediately lose all their ability. Makes sense.

 

[Braveheart81]

Maybe form fluctuates?

 

[wamberal]

Maybe form fluctuates?

No, that does not fit the narrative. Players who go north immediately improve just because they are suddenly getting better coaching. When they come back, they automatically lose all that NH gloss, because our coaches are all hopeless.

 

[fatprop]

Some interesting comments from Cheika on Kick and Chase

Folau will be 15 for his kick diffusion skills and his ability to get forward momentum in contact on kick return.

Cooper won't be chosen from club, has had opportunities to play Super Rugby for other aus franchises but has chosen to stay in Brisbane. This baffles me, he is 30, will he just plod about in club now? This guy will be a long time retired, regrets?

The Pooper, could be 7 & 8 or right and left

 

[KOB1987]

Some interesting comments from Cheika on Kick and Chase

Folau will be 15 for his kick diffusion skills and his ability to get forward momentum in contact on kick return.

Cooper won't be chosen from club, has had opportunities to play Super Rugby for other aus franchises but has chosen to stay in Brisbane. This baffles me, he is 30, will he just plod about in club now? This guy will be a long time retired, regrets?

The Pooper, could be 7 & 8 or right and left

And the inference I got is that there is pressure on to get Samu to sign with the Brumbies for 2 years within the next fortnight so that he is eligible for the Ireland series.

 

[Brumby Runner]

He should be selected on his overall ability as a 12 which on the basis of what we saw last year in test rugby was easily the best we had available.

I think he is a pretty obvious selection at 12 again this year.

Who exactly is this star 12 you want selected?

No stat tracker seems to do line break assists this year but in terms of total line breaks for the Aussie teams the Tahs have 137 for the season, Rebels 120, Reds 97 and Brumbies 77.

BH I haven't said there is a star No 12 waiting in the wings to replace Beale. I said that on the same criteria by which you assess Kerevi as unsuitable, then Beale should be similarly assessed. On the matter of linebreaks, how many of the Reds' breaks were made by Kerevi and how many of the Tahs' breaks by Beale?

 

[eastman]

BH I haven't said there is a star No 12 waiting in the wings to replace Beale. I said that on the same criteria by which you assess Kerevi as unsuitable, then Beale should be similarly assessed. On the matter of linebreaks, how many of the Reds' breaks were made by Kerevi and how many of the Tahs' breaks by Beale?

Which backline is working better as a unit? It might be due to Beale's ability to distribute (regardless of how limited you think it is)

 

[Braveheart81]

BH I haven't said there is a star No 12 waiting in the wings to replace Beale. I said that on the same criteria by which you assess Kerevi as unsuitable, then Beale should be similarly assessed. On the matter of linebreaks, how many of the Reds' breaks were made by Kerevi and how many of the Tahs' breaks by Beale?

I never applied different criteria to each player. I said that Kerevi isn't going to get selected ahead of someone based on his defence. Likewise Beale isn't being selected based on his. If Kerevi was a rock solid defender at 12 it would definitely change the conversation around selections. As it stands he isn't.

Kerevi has 6 linebreaks this season and Beale has 5. I think Beale is primarily being selected as a genuine second playmaker at 12 and that is the preferred structure. That is the main thing he has over Kerevi (and every other candidate there).

If Kerevi was both a barnstorming runner and an excellent defender his chances of playing 12 would be increased massively.

 

[Derpus]

Beale will be 12. He smashed it in a Wallaby jersey last year. Kerevi has not really lit the world on fire in green and gold.

It'll be Beale with Kerevi as second option.

 

[TSR]

Maybe the Soup is a bit tougher to excel in than the pale NH equivalents?

Yeah - that’s fair - but maybe my point wasn’t well made. I feel we have the players to compete, but they aren’t realising their potential in the Australian system.

From what I’ve seen, Angus Ta’avoe has come along leaps and bounds since heading back to NZ, whereas his ability was derided here.
There are numerous other examples. It is not really a particularly insightful or controversial observation.

 

[Derpus]

Yeah - that’s fair - but maybe my point wasn’t well made. I feel we have the players to compete, but they aren’t realising their potential in the Australian system.

From what I’ve seen, Angus Ta’avoe has come along leaps and bounds since heading back to NZ, whereas his ability was derided here.
There are numerous other examples. It is not really a particularly insightful or controversial observation.

Angus, Lousi etc. are made to look better by the players around them. They aren't actually any better over there.

It's players like Pete Samu, Ala'alatoa, etc. that concern me more. Young lads who either couldn't develop here or thought they would have a better chance developing in NZ.

 

[Braveheart81]

I think Ta'avao is playing better now than he ever has before but part of that is down to attitude. I think he got down to a last chance saloon after being released by the Tahs, put in an excellent Mitre 10 Cup season to win a Super Rugby contract and is now playing well for the Chiefs. Maybe Ta'avao would have done a bit better in his two years at the Tahs if he hadn't spent a long time out injured with a broken leg.

Lousi has come on in leaps and bounds but has also had a couple of seasons of uninterrupted rugby. He was new to the game as a professional at the Tahs and then was out for a long period of time with a shoulder reconstruction.

I think the disappointing thing with Samu and Ala'alatoa is they were either not looked at by other Australian teams or decided that having a crack with a NZ team was just as appealing (if not more appealing) than moving to another Australian team.

Ideally we would have liked Ala'alatoa to move to the Rebels etc. where he might have started because he was stuck behind Kepu at the Tahs rather than heading to NZ.