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The Wallabies Thread

topgun

Billy Sheehan (19)
From Chieka's comments on the rugby.com.au pod-casts yesterday it seems like we'll be seeing a mixed up team every time to keep Eddie on his toes. might be we see a lot of the suggestions for the 2nd row and midfield that we're discussing. I guess we won't know until they're put into practise
 

Scrubber2050

Mark Ella (57)
For me
1. Slipper (playing very well, lots of involvements, huge influence on those around him, part of the most dominant scrum in super 15 - Sio is still a very good scrummager but lacks a nit around the field - (both these players are certainties at either 1 or 17)
2. Stephen Moore - no question (TPN to back him up)
3. Greg Holmes - no question (backup - anybody's guess ATM)
4. Simmons - no question
5.Still to early to call but there are a few to choose from.
6.Fardy - no question
7. Pocock - best 7 available - yeah yeah I can hear the Michael Hooper supporters going nuts but there you have it
8. Holloway - stats clearly favour this bloke over the rest. (think Holloway is a better 8 by far than Pocock and Poey over Hooper BUT then you have the proven and successful Pooper rationale )
9. Phipps - no question
10. Foley - no question
11. Horne - no question (to me, anyway)
12. Kerevi - or possibly Lilo - Kerevi just brings more physicality and another big bopper to the midfield (if Beale had been fit he would have got the spot)
13. TK - no question - hasn't played the best this year but is the best available - the combination of Kerevi and TK would be a very intimidating mid field to all opposition teams, including the AB's
14. Still to early to call (hopefully Tomane is back, fit and ready to continue his 2016 form to date)
15. Folau - no question - hasn't played a great test for quite a while and has improved at 13 for the Tahs. To me, he is the best 15 in the world and the Wallabies would get the most benefit playing him at the back.

I don't think Chek will bring any overseas players back for this series (and hopefully he will "blood" some new guys as well)
 

fatprop

George Gregan (70)
Staff member
As Holloway stated in the Podcast, he isn't part of Cheika's plans at the moment and I think Pocock, Hooper & McMahon will share minutes.

We need on-ball units more than we need an 8 more prone to running wider channels, we need anger and directness, we need solid, agressive defence and workrate
 

Viking

Mark Ella (57)
Anyone who isn't including Hooper and Poey in their starting XV is crazy. BOTH were nominated as IRB player of the year, both are proven to be one of the worlds best players at international level, the combination has proven to be successful. Why change?

They should both be treated like Nonu. Super XV form can be a little low, but they can still absolutely destroy opposition come the international season. And they have both proven to do this on a consistant basis. Crazy to think you want to drop these guys over guys who are yet to prove themselves on the international level.

Holloway/McMahon/McCalman can get game time from the bench and/or if Hooper/Poey has a game off to rest which is very unlikely unless maybe we win the first 2 England Test matches. They should get more game time come EOYT too.
 

Gnostic

Mark Ella (57)
For me

1. Slipper (playing very well, lots of involvements, huge influence on those around him, part of the most dominant scrum in super 15 - Sio is still a very good scrummager but lacks a nit around the field - (both these players are certainties at either 1 or 17)

2. Stephen Moore - no question (TPN to back him up)

3. Greg Holmes - no question (backup - anybody's guess ATM)

4. Simmons - no question

5.Still to early to call but there are a few to choose from.

6.Fardy - no question

7. Pocock - best 7 available - yeah yeah I can hear the Michael Hooper supporters going nuts but there you have it

8. Holloway - stats clearly favour this bloke over the rest. (think Holloway is a better 8 by far than Pocock and Poey over Hooper BUT then you have the proven and successful Pooper rationale )

9. Phipps - no question

10. Foley - no question

11. Horne - no question (to me, anyway)

12. Kerevi - or possibly Lilo - Kerevi just brings more physicality and another big bopper to the midfield (if Beale had been fit he would have got the spot)

13. TK - no question - hasn't played the best this year but is the best available - the combination of Kerevi and TK would be a very intimidating mid field to all opposition teams, including the AB's

14. Still to early to call (hopefully Tomane is back, fit and ready to continue his 2016 form to date)

15. Folau - no question - hasn't played a great test for quite a while and has improved at 13 for the Tahs. To me, he is the best 15 in the world and the Wallabies would get the most benefit playing him at the back.



I don't think Chek will bring any overseas players back for this series (and hopefully he will "blood" some new guys as well)



Only problem Scrubby is that the only person in that backline, assuming Tomane is back and fit, is that nobody excepting Foley can kick reliably.

As for the backrow, it all depends on what game Chieka is going to play as to if we see a continuance of the Pooper or we go for a more traditional (Pro era) fetcher/on ball 7 and running 8.
 

Viking

Mark Ella (57)
As for the backrow, it all depends on what game Chieka is going to play as to if we see a continuance of the Pooper or we go for a more traditional (Pro era) fetcher/on ball 7 and running 8.


But the Pooper is exactly that (plus more). One on-the-ball fetcher and one ball runner. Hooper is a great ball runner, I doubt Holloway would be that much better.

The big plus with Holloway over Hooper is really only the line-out and his height. Maybe a slight advantage at scrum time too.

But then you lose Hoopers dominate tackles, leadership, international experience, and breakdown ability.

It's crazy talk to even consider a rookie ahead of one of our best wallabies in the last 3 years. Unless maybe the line-out becomes a huge issue or there is a huge drop in form - none of these are current issues.
 

Gnostic

Mark Ella (57)
But the Pooper is exactly that (plus more). One on-the-ball fetcher and one ball runner. Hooper is a great ball runner, I doubt Holloway would be that much better.



The big plus with Holloway over Hooper is really only the line-out and his height. Maybe a slight advantage at scrum time too.



But then you lose Hoopers dominate tackles, leadership, international experience, and breakdown ability.



It's crazy talk to even consider a rookie ahead of one of our best wallabies in the last 3 years. Unless maybe the line-out becomes a huge issue or there is a huge drop in form - none of these are current issues.



As I said it is what game you want to play. Have a look at Hooper's running metres and where and when they are gained as opposed to Holloway for instance. I am not arguing for either, it all comes back to the balance and game plan Chieka will be looking to play this year. It is also all tied up with who is playing in the second row, if Simmons and Skelton/Arnold/Coleman is selected then Holloway's tight running game is less important and the tackling and speed aspect becomes more important.

The arguments about individuals fail on far too many occasions to take into account the construction of a whole balanced 15 in terms of total skill attributes.

Take for example the continued discussion about the backline, picking form individuals as Scrubber has done may well leave the backline with only Foley who can kick the ball. As happened in Super Rugby last year with the Tahs such selections would leave the Wallabies dangerously exposed to a well executed tactical kicking game with a good defensive chase, they would never get out of their own half and would be bashing away continuously and eventually get turned over. Individuals not matter how gifted or how in-form do not make a complete side.
 

Groucho

Greg Davis (50)
From Chieka's comments on the rugby.com.au pod-casts yesterday it seems like we'll be seeing a mixed up team every time to keep Eddie on his toes. might be we see a lot of the suggestions for the 2nd row and midfield that we're discussing. I guess we won't know until they're put into practise
One thing we know about Cheika is that he doesn't often tell the truth when asked about his plans for forthcoming games. Usually it's a series of increasingly inconsistent confabulations, which prompts some to call him a fool, and others to conclude the opposite.
 

Scrubber2050

Mark Ella (57)
Gnostic is correct re the kicking option. (only Foley)

Folau's kicking is pretty average, maybe that may elevate Lilo more into selection at 12
 

Viking

Mark Ella (57)
As I said it is what game you want to play. Have a look at Hooper's running metres and where and when they are gained as opposed to Holloway for instance. I am not arguing for either, it all comes back to the balance and game plan Chieka will be looking to play this year. It is also all tied up with who is playing in the second row, if Simmons and Skelton/Arnold/Coleman is selected then Holloway's tight running game is less important and the tackling and speed aspect becomes more important.

The arguments about individuals fail on far too many occasions to take into account the construction of a whole balanced 15 in terms of total skill attributes.

Take for example the continued discussion about the backline, picking form individuals as Scrubber has done may well leave the backline with only Foley who can kick the ball. As happened in Super Rugby last year with the Tahs such selections would leave the Wallabies dangerously exposed to a well executed tactical kicking game with a good defensive chase, they would never get out of their own half and would be bashing away continuously and eventually get turned over. Individuals not matter how gifted or how in-form do not make a complete side.


Nice post Gnostic. I agree with most.

However I would just like to make an important point. You asked me to compare the running metre's of Holloway and Hooper.

Unfortunately their is only super xv stats available because Holloway has never played an international game. The point is, we cannot and should not assume his running game will be anywhere near as effective as it is in super rugby.

You know who else has an amazing running game who has been dominating the stats the last couple of years - McMahon. He absolutely carved up the super xv season, the Barbarians and the USA - but then look what happened to his running game on the EOYT Or during last years RWC? Not bad games but hardly even close to the same impact or run metres.

Balance is all good. But we aren't talking about dropping Hooper for Keiran Read we are talking about Holloway. With Holloway your working with an unknown. I would love to see him integrated slowly into the team. Test him off the bench.

To drop not only one of the best wallabies, but one of the best players in the world for a rookie with only one good super xv season is laughable.

It's not like Holloway is putting in MOTM performances each week, or even pulling off key plays in key moments of the game. He is simply doing his job. To give him credit he is doing his job damn well and dominating the stats.

Hooper's role at the Tahs is also some-what different to the wallabies. At the Tahs he is certainly required to have more of a breakdown presence. Given Holloway is in the team Hooper does not need to focus on running as much. It is the opposite in the wallabies. Pocock and Fardy dominate the breakdown allowing Hooper to focus on tackling and running. This all effects his stats this year. The great thing about Hooper is he can do both.
 

Scrubber2050

Mark Ella (57)
Think most agree Pocock is a better 7 than Hooper

TBH, Hooper would be a better 8 than Pocock

Just change them around IF both are in the team.
 

Groucho

Greg Davis (50)
Gnostic is correct re the kicking option. (only Foley)

Folau's kicking is pretty average, maybe that may elevate Lilo more into selection at 12

We won't go far wrong with an in-form Lilo. He's always had the potential to be an excellent international 12. Injury always stopped him. Either K will do us fine at 13. Kerevi is more dynamic. Kuridrani is a safer pair of hands. It's potentially a good backline if everyone's in form. Enough to seriously trouble the Pomgolian defense.
 

Slim 293

Stirling Mortlock (74)
Think most agree Pocock is a better 7 than Hooper

TBH, Hooper would be a better 8 than Pocock

Just change them around IF both are in the team.


673.gif
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
You could always add it as your forum signature then you could just chime in with a post containing a single .

It would save you heaps of time.
 

Scrubber2050

Mark Ella (57)
You could always add it as your forum signature then you could just chime in with a post containing a single .

It would save you heaps of time.


Ah Braveheart - you have been a bit quiet after your last post I picked you up on

Anyway glad to see you are well and sort of contributing :)
 

Groucho

Greg Davis (50)
Perhaps it just makes the case for Liam Gill's selection stronger. Has anyone in Oz Rugby kicked more drop goals than him this season? Could be crucial come test time.

Maybe our best chance against the ABs is to pick a team consisting entirely of kickers. Gill, Dunning, Eales.
 
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