The Wallabies Thread

[Derpus]

Hyperbole. Our front row in particular is very good. DHP is a fine fullback. To'omua is a great utility player, etc.

We suck at the moment. Baby, bathwater, etc.

 

[kiap]

Slightly more brutal assessment of the wallabies - including both their play and player depth - on rugbypass:

There is also a ruthless look at the way they are playing in terms of structure, organisation and efficiency.

It might be brutal but from the title on down it needs to be said.

Analysis: The Wallabies have reached the peak of delusion​

​

Rugby Australia are also delusional if they think that getting rid of the assistant coaches is the identifiable fix.

The head coach is responsible for this nonsense and he has lost touch with reality.

Australia does not have a team capable of being #1 or #2 at the moment – and that's not the coach's fault – but we DO have the cattle to put up some competent opposition to tier one teams and win more than 2 games in 10.

Look at this headless chook stuff. The team doesn't know what they're meant to be doing under this whacky regime, which is long on bravado and short on substance. Don't try to blame this on Super Rugby or the players wanting to find their own way of looking stupid. The buck stops with Michael Cheika.

​

How many Wallabies does it take to change a light bulb?​

 

[vidiot]

Hyperbole. Our front row in particular is very good. DHP is a fine fullback. To'omua is a great utility player, etc.

We suck at the moment. Baby, bathwater, etc.

Agreed. Analysis is more interesting.

The ARU does overpay and over commit in contracts to a range of players but they are still, by and large, the players to pick, and they are not across the board, hands-down worse than players from Ireland, England, South Africa, Argentina...

The perspective that those players are not efficiently performing their roles - the 'ruck inspectors' above for example - rings true. And It come down to how they are prepared and to the structures they play under - the responsibility of the coach.

 

[Slim 293]

Robertson suffered a "significant knee injury" during training, and possibly in doubt for the World Cup if it turns out to be an ACL tear.........

http://www.rugby.com.au/news/2018/10/04/rugby-championship-salta-tom-robertson-injury

 

[dru]

Agreed. Analysis is more interesting.

The ARU does overpay and over commit in contracts to a range of players but they are still, by and large, the players to pick, and they are not across the board, hands-down worse than players from Ireland, England, South Africa, Argentina.

The perspective that those players are not efficiently performing their roles - the 'ruck inspectors' above for example - rings true. And It come down to how they are prepared and to the structures they play under - the responsibility of the coach.

I suspect that oppositions are finding the pack easily predictable. The line out is the most obvious, but the pod system is being picked off too. It’s a known downside to basic pod structure. Either variation is required or it needs better management in calling options behind the pods.

The front man in the 3 pods end up making little impact when the D is set in advance. Then we end up overcommitting bodies at the ruck. This means the next phase is disorganised and the half has to reset. Our 10-12 sitting behind the pods haven’t had the nous to pick options either.

It’s simply disengenuous for coaching to blame the cattle. Rugby tactics has been developing quickly and modern D is very strong. I just don’t think our game play and tactics are top 5 any more.

 

[upthereds#!]

RETURN OF THE SLIPSSSSSS

Spring Tour - Slipper as the 5th prop.

 

[Slim 293]

RETURN OF THE SLIPSSSSSS

Spring Tour - Slipper as the 5th prop.

He deserves it......... the other options are a massive step down.

 

[Rebels3]

Robertson suffered a "significant knee injury" during training, and possibly in doubt for the World Cup if it turns out to be an ACL tear...

http://www.rugby.com.au/news/2018/10/04/rugby-championship-salta-tom-robertson-injury

Poor guy.

Although i don't think he's international quality (yet), he definitely made strides in the right direction this year, hopefully he comes back bigger and better.

 

[upthereds#!]

His time is post WC. always should have been had slipper not been injured/fallen off the wagon.

 

[Mr Pilfer]

I thought it would be interesting to have a look at the results of the Australian Under 20's over the last ten years and they are as follows;

2017 - 6th
2016 - 6th
2015 - 5th
2014 - 5th
2013 - 7th
2012 - 8th
2011 - 3rd
2010 - 2nd
2009 - 4th
2008 - 5th

We can argue about the coach and selections until we are blue in the face but if our under 20's have been consistently out of the top 4 for the last 7 years then we obviously don't have the talent coming through so until they fix the grassroots and start from the bottom there will not be an improvement.

 

[Strewthcobber]

Looking at those results, a golden generation of 27 to 29 year olds should be at the peak of their powers for the Wallabies now right?

 

[KOB1987]

^^^ I just tried to find the historical World Rugby rankings to see if there was any correlation over a distinct lag period e.g. 3-6 years. I can't find the 'seniors' ranking past 2014 but I didn't try too hard, and I found enough info to see some correlation - for the period from 2011-2014 we were ranked 2nd or 3rd the whole time which maps out pretty well with the 'juniors' for 2008-2011. All that said, I think the selections of the U20's can be a bit 'predetermined'....

What was interesting was that I found on Wikipedia the highs and lows for the major nations - and we've all been there, bar NZ. Rankings only started in 2003 so when we talk of a 'record low' 7th for us it's not really. I'd wager that the lows of the 70's and early 80s were far worse.

Anyway:
Argentina: 3rd - 12th
Australia: 2nd - 7th
England: 1st - 8th
France: 2nd -10th
Ireland: 2nd - 9th
NZ: 1st - 3rd
Scotland: 5th -12th
Sth Africa: 1st - 7th
Wales: 2nd - 10th

So when we say 'fuck we just got beaten by Argentina', it really depends what stage of the cycle we're both at. We're used to playing them when they're ranked 8th-12th, what's to say they're not on their way to being 3rd again.

I really don't see it getting any worse for us but something needs to change with the coaching setup, whether it's personnel or methodology, or a bit of both. I honestly think the selections are neither here nor there, as long as we're picking from the best available and in their right positions (don't get into a back row argument here). The fucked up game plan is the biggest thing that needs to change.

 

[Strewthcobber]

^^^ I just tried to find the historical World Rugby rankings to see if there was any correlation over a distinct lag period e.g. 3-6 years. I can't find the 'seniors' ranking past 2014 but I didn't try too hard, and I found enough info to see some correlation - for the period from 2011-2014 we were ranked 2nd or 3rd the whole time which maps out pretty well with the 'juniors' for 2008-2011. All that said, I think the selections of the U20's can be a bit 'predetermined'..


.

I was being fairly facetious with that comment!

Looks though like around age 27 is when teams are at their peak - at least that's when world cup winners seem to be. So seven/eight years on from an under 20 team

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/r...ms-and-how-England-might-compare-in-2015.html

It's probably a bit early to be drawing any conclusions given the championship only started 10 years ago.

 

[KOB1987]

I was being fairly facetious with that comment!

Looks though like around age 27 is when teams are at their peak - at least that's when world cup winners seem to be. So seven/eight years on from an under 20 team

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/r...ms-and-how-England-might-compare-in-2015.html

It's probably a bit early to be drawing any conclusions given the championship only started 10 years ago.

I was in the the process of replying to Mr Pilfer when I put the up arrows, but then when I posted and saw your post there I thought I'd leave them there anyway

Average age 27, so a few old hard heads in their late 20s early 30s, and a few youngies in their early 20s coming through. It's the latter group that are probably the most influential in terms of a teams trajectory (as opposed to performance) so I reckon the 'juniors' should flow onto the 'seniors' around about 4-5 years later.

 

[upthereds#!]

Looking at those results, a golden generation of 27 to 29 year olds should be at the peak of their powers for the Wallabies now right?

It would be interesting to see the teams lists from 2008-11 and see how many are playing in Australia.

 

[Strewthcobber]

2010 squad which came second

Forwards: Cruze Ah-Nau (WA), Paul Alo-Emile (QLD), Phoenix Battye (NSW), Colby Fainga'a (ACT), Liam Gill (QLD), Michael Hooper (ACT), Luke Jones (WA), Salesi Manu (NSW), Gregory Peterson (NSW), Edward Quirk (QLD), Sam Roberson (NSW), Siliva Siliva (WA), Scott Sio (NSW), Jake Schatz (QLD).

Backs: Tim Bennetts (NSW), Robbie Coleman (ACT), Greg Jeloudev (NSW), Jonathon Lance (QLD), Cameron Mitchell (NSW), Dominic Shipperley (QLD), Kimami Sitauti (QLD), Aidan Toua (QLD), Matt To'omua (ACT), Luke Morahan (QLD), Justin Turner (WA), Nic White (ACT).

 

[Brumby Runner]

2011 squad with Colby Fainga'a appointed Captain.

Forwards: Paul Alo-Emile (WA), Jarrad Butler (QLD), Blake Enever (QLD), Colby Fainga'a (ACT), Liam Gill (QLD), Michael Hooper (ACT), Luke Jones (VIC), Bill Meakes (NSW), Tim Metcher (ACT), Greg Peterson (NSW), JP Pradaud (ACT), Eddie Quirk (QLD), Hugh Roach (ACT), Siliva Siliva (WA), Scott Sio (NSW)

Backs: James Ambrosini (ACT), Eddie Bredenhann (ACT), Joel Faulkner (QLD), Tom Kingston (NSW), Tevita Kuridrani (QLD), Apo Latunipulu (NSW), Matt Lucas (QLD), Simon Morahan (QLD), Rohan Saifoloi (NSW), Kimami Sitauti (QLD), Ben Volavola (NSW), Jacob Woodhouse (NSW)

Interesting that Billy Meakes is listed as a forward. Strong set of forwards, but backs not so strong.

 

[Slim 293]

Interesting that Billy Meakes is listed as a forward. Strong set of forwards, but backs not so strong.

It’s a mistake.......... Meakes played at 12 for the U20’s.

 

[Rugrat]

Everyone fan and juorno watching the half time spray from Cheika, and the second half reversal automatically and rather simplisticly draw the conclusion that one lead to the other. Yet 2 quotes after the game by players, Foley “ ive had him for a while, so I have been on the end of a few of them” and DHP “ obviously there were some stern words, from Cheik which we’re use to”.
Watch the tape of the dressing room again but focus on the players not Cheika. There is no fear or motivation there. Cheika motivation can’t claim that win. As the players said themselves they have heard it before from Cheika. If it didn’t help in the previous games lost why now? The Wallabies went out and threw the game plan out the window and just played thier roles. Foley kicking in distance immeasurably assisted by altitude, played simple straight direct rugby, and Argentina missed thier general at 10.
Glad they won and glad they discovered basic rugby. But to say that Cheika has them back on track or that his role was the catalyst for the revival is wishful thinking.

 

[upthereds#!]

I'm a professional coach, and when you actually study coaching, you learn that if you need to whip that stuff out regularly, then you aren't doing it right. (coaching that is)