The Wallabies Thread

[fatprop]

Cheika strikes me as someone who would take very badly to a 'senior advisor' or any opposing viewpoint really.

Lineout throwing should be compulsory extra training time for hookers like goal kicking is (I assume) for kickers.

Gafney did that at the Tahs

 

[fatprop]

As Tirinui stated, most of the defensive errors were down to lack of game intelligence, bad communication and lack of trust in their teammates

 

[Rebels3]

So Mortlocks well circulated solution.is to address just 4 points

Robotic attack
Wobbly lineout
inconsistent defence
ill Discipline

So.all they need to turn around is their attack, defence, set piece and discipline.

Thank god for experts.

I listened to the Rugby pod this week when they had Ben Kay on, he briefly talked about Matt O'Connor and Australian coaches.

Essentially he described Aussie coaches as playlist coaches, that have everything scripted, then when asked what has been the biggest turn around in the past 2 weeks, he pointed to his 5/8 now been able to run the show instead of having everything choreographed. Systematic of the biggest issue with Australian attack these days. My opinion is that rush defense has caused scripted play to be very difficult to execute now as there is less time to execute.

 

[Ignoto]

he pointed to his 5/8 now been able to run the show instead of having everything choreographed. Systematic of the biggest issue with Australian attack these days.

 

[MonkeyBoy]

JAYSUS, how big are Thorn's hands!!!!

 

[Waterboyrugby]

I listened to the Rugby pod this week when they had Ben Kay on, he briefly talked about Matt O'Connor and Australian coaches.

Essentially he described Aussie coaches as playlist coaches, that have everything scripted, then when asked what has been the biggest turn around in the past 2 weeks, he pointed to his 5/8 now been able to run the show instead of having everything choreographed. Systematic of the biggest issue with Australian attack these days. My opinion is that rush defense has caused scripted play to be very difficult to execute now as there is less time to execute.

Nail on the head. For some reason, the talent I.D. around 5/8's is mind-numbingly amiss in Australia. The two/three best prospects I saw in Brisbane over 2012-2016 were Sam Greene, Brodie Croft and Isaac Lucas. Guys that can play flat, attack the line and read and manipulate the defence, with some kind of unique special athletic talent. Greene w/speed and running game, Lucas with footwork and Croft had a mix of both. All 3 could hit any runner short or long while taking a hit. The coaches have an obsession with 10's who can't create and fit into the 'distributor' box that continually fails in pro rugby.

Jake McIntyre was completely deficient at playmaking, as well as out-of-the-hand kicking yet the Reds put everything into him. Hamish Stewart was a tidy schoolboy player, but Croft was the superior 10 in that age group. Looking at Stewart's Super Rugby production, he turns the ball over in the top 5 of 10's but is in the bottom 5 when it comes to creating opportunities...

To put it bluntly, the selectors seem to have no idea what is valuable in a 10. After sacking MOC, George Ford has gone from terrible to one of the best attacking 10's in the competition in just 2 weeks.

 

[Derpus]

JAYSUS, how big are Thorn's hands!!!!

You know what they say about men with big hands

 

[Bandar]

You know what they say about men with big hands

Big gloves

 

[upthereds#!]

Quade was a great example of teams having to be aware of how they play, so they can get the benefit out of their skills. Newcastle Knights have recognised it with Ponga, saying hey this guy has freaky skills, everyone else needs to get on their level and expect the unexpected. It worked when the Reds did it, but the Wallabies and the new Reds weren't interested. Now Kafe is saying the backline needs to get on Beales level and give him options when he runs sideways across field, and expect the unexpected.

Seems familiar.

 

[Derpus]

Quade was a great example of teams having to be aware of how they play, so they can get the benefit out of their skills. Newcastle Knights have recognised it with Ponga, saying hey this guy has freaky skills, everyone else needs to get on their level and expect the unexpected. It worked when the Reds did it, but the Wallabies and the new Reds weren't interested. Now Kafe is saying the backline needs to get on Beales level and give him options when he runs sideways across field, and expect the unexpected.

Seems familiar.

Running an unders line or playing a simple switch is not expecting the unexpected. It's playing rugby.

Fuckin 'Strayans and our reliance on 1990's structures.

Edit: we really are pretty useless. We can't succeed with a fairly standard distributive typed 10 playing to an attacking structure and we go even worse when we throw in a creative type who tries to create plays off the cuff. Fucking useless.

 

[fatprop]

Quade was a great example of teams having to be aware of how they play, so they can get the benefit out of their skills. Newcastle Knights have recognised it with Ponga, saying hey this guy has freaky skills, everyone else needs to get on their level and expect the unexpected. It worked when the Reds did it, but the Wallabies and the new Reds weren't interested. Now Kafe is saying the backline needs to get on Beales level and give him options when he runs sideways across field, and expect the unexpected.

Seems familiar.

Tirinui suggested we have a backline structure set up to fit Foley (he plays square and looks for second touches) and then we throw Beale in who needs a different structure with more runners as he runs sideways

 

[dru]

Tirinui suggested we have a backline structure set up to fit Foley (he plays square and looks for second touches) and then we throw Beale in who needs a different structure with more runners as he runs sideways

Sure but I dont understand why it's such a big issue. Both at the Tahs, and at the WBS, these two swap around at 10 every game all the time. How come the players are not already aware?

 

[Rebels3]

I don't think it matters if the 10 is creative, a distributor or pragmatic. It's the structures and expectations around these guys. Its the this is whats happening on phase 1, this is whats happening on phase 2, 3, 4, etc. Pragmatic 10s can be great 10s, if allowed to call the shots in their own way, just like creative 10s, players around them can learn to adjust their runs to suit the style of the dominant player depending on the defensive picture, instead we have people running into traffic and the ball often been pushed to these players because that's what the designed play intended for. Suddenly you have pushed passes, droppped catches because they are about to get smashed, or they lose the collision etc. cause it's all so predictable.

 

[tragic]

Beale has never been charged with a crime as far as i know? .

His mullet Is criminal. Does that count?

 

[Aurelius]

Sure but I dont understand why it's such a big issue. Both at the Tahs, and at the WBS, these two swap around at 10 every game all the time. How come the players are not already aware?

I wonder if all the coaching in modern sport has caused athletes' problem-solving abilities to atrophy. I remember when Craig McDermott became Australia's fast bowling coach a few years ago, he got all our quicks - Starc, Pattinson, Siddle etc - to pitch the ball up more than they had been and get it swinging. It was very successful, but as soon as McDermott left the quicks all apparently forgot what they'd learnt and started pitching it shorter again, until McDermott returned to the role.

I know fast bowlers aren't supposed to be the sharpest tools in the shed, but most sports are fluid by nature and most athletes you'd hope would be flexible enough to play the game in front of them, not rigidly sticking to plans the coaches came up with before anyone stepped on to the field.

Wasn't it Napoleon who said that no battle plans survive contact with the enemy, or something like that? He knew a thing or two about winning contests.

 

[Derpus]

Sun Tzu also said 'Pretend inferiority and encourage his arrogance'.

Just lulling them all into a false sense of security, then bam WC is ours.

 

[BAR]

This article might be NFL focused but as I read it I couldn’t help but think of our Wallabies and many of the points raised recently in this thread ... https://usafootball.com/coaches-not...ill-in-american-football-a-working-definition

 

[Brumbieman]

As the Wallabies slip to a demoralising seventh in the world rankings, it is high time an asleep-at-the-wheel Rugby Australia board got its act together and makes immediate changes to the team management structure.
If the RA directors are serious about dragging Australian Rugby out of its biggest crisis in decades, it must dismantle the flawed Wallabies coaching contingent and bring in new blood, new ideas and new strategies... right now.
With exactly a year to go before the World Cup, they must do all they can to attract from overseas the best coaching candidates, because losing to Argentina for the first time on Australian soil in 35 years reinforced a long standing fact that the Wallabies are not responding to their head coach Michael Cheika. The message is not getting through, so a new message is required.
Also ignore Cheika's media pals who babble on about how there's no one out there to replace either him or his assistant coaches who are under similar pressure after repeatedly failing to revive this flagging outfit. A lure of a World Cup coaching position is tantalising and could easily entice someone of a high calibre.
If the most obvious candidate in Joe Schmidt is supposedly locked in with Ireland, then why not try numerous other highly capable and successful New Zealand coaches. Dave Rennie, currently with Glasgow Warriors, is a coach deeply admired and respected in Chiefs territory, after taking them to two Super Rugby titles - and would bring decorum back to the Wallabies ranks. He is a coach players deeply respect, and has something to prove at international level.
It is the same with the Crusaders mastermind Scott Robertson, who has been a phenomena the past two Super Rugby seasons. He's another who understands the rugby zeitgeist. There's also Vern Cotter at Montpellier, who revitalised Scotland. Former Springboks coach Jake White is hovering - as a one-year World Cup specialist. Remember White and former Wallabies coach Eddie Jones worked wonders in securing Springbok success at the 2007 World Cup.

If you want Australian input, David Nucifora must be doing something right as Ireland Rugby's high performance director, while Scott Johnson, Scotland's director of rugby, has a wealth of knowledge and understands the Wallabies beast.
Each one would bring much needed sanity back to the Wallabies ranks. And each one must be sounded out by Rugby Australia board members. If not, the directors should depart as well, because they are not doing their job and don't have the interests of Australian Rugby as their number one priority.
ESPN understands that approaches to several overseas coaches were made recently, especially with Cheika losing the support of several influential Rugby Australia officials. Some one-on-one relationships at RA's Moore Park headquarters have in recent weeks cooled appreciably. Cheika is not as safe as those in the "Former Wallabies inner sanctum back-scratching club" are making out.
That's understandable, because the Cheika statistics are damning.

Cheika, who took over from Ewen McKenzie just 10 months before the 2015 World Cup, boasts an underwhelming 50 percent success rate from 52 Tests. This year, he has only enjoyed two wins from seven internationals - six of which have been played at home. After a spirited but scrappy win over the Springboks the previous weekend, they went through their usual routine of immediately dropping a gear, again showing an inability to enjoy back-to-back Test wins. Now the Wallabies are on the road to Port Elizabeth and Salta - and with it the likelihood of two more drubbings.
Since the 2015 World Cup, Cheika's coaching record is dreadful - only 15 wins from 36 Tests, a success rate of 41 percent.
It also appears to be a regime out of control. What was going on when Cheika made the strange decision to replace Matt To'omua after just 49 minutes? To'omua looked completely bewildered on the sideline, as Wallabies team manager Pat Molihan checked his clipboard, before telling him he had to go off because Bernard Foley was already on the field.
Why replace one of the most reliable and experienced attacking players, when Kurtley Beale was skittish at best while Reece Hodge and Dane Haylett-Petty were hardly transforming the game? This was dreadful match management. To'omua would have been an asset in the final quarter of the game. No wonder he appeared stunned.
Then again, there appeared to be similar sideline confusion during the Sydney All Blacks Test, where midway during the game it appeared the Wallabies were about to replace a prop with a hooker. Maybe a late change of mind coincided with a blast down the two-way radio line. Adding to the silliness was assistant coach Stephen Larkham's failure as a stand-up comedian during the week. Larkham tried to send up Argentinean coach Mario Ledesma, who used to be part of the Wallabies coaching contingent, by saying he couldn't believe he was now a head coach because he 'struggled as an assistant coach.'
Dumb statements have a way of biting one back, especially as Ledesma responded with the more truthful line that Larkham's province, the Brumbies, had the worst attack in Super Rugby. That's impossible to dispute. Under Larkham, not much is happening either with the Wallabies attack.
Game, set and match to Ledesma.
As crucially, Cheika and Co. have lost the rugby heartland. Australian Test crowds and match revenue has dropped alarmingly this season, and those who do attend are deeply disenchanted. This includes infuriated fans jeering and berating those in the Australian coach's box after the Wallabies' dreadful loss to the All Blacks in Sydney, and scuffles involving spectators and players following the Gold Coast defeat.
When you have Australian players saying they aren't working hard enough, or lack enthusiasm, it is a clear indicator the Wallaby culture is in need of a serious change.
Combine that with a poor skill level of skill, a serious lack of on-field intelligence, an average lineout plus a back-row that failed to make any impact, and you have a floundering outfit in desperate need of a new locomotive and train driver.

It's Growden again, but I can't argue with much of this. I'm not normally a 'sack the coach' bloke, but im finally done after the weekend. Rugby will be killed if this keeps going. We're ranked the worst in our history, and if you take out the wins (that are just assumed, you cant claim these as 'success' when coaching the Wallabies) against the USA and Russia etc, then his win % drops to about 20%. It's fucken embarrassing.

Sure, we're skint and we'd have to pay Cheika out, but we'd make that money back pretty quick if we started winning again.

Get Jake White in with Dave Rennie as his assistant/attack coach on a one year contract to the WC with a clause that says they get the gig for 4 years after that if they win and their pay goes up (more cash available). Yin and Yang, let Rennie teach our guys how to run the ball again and counter attack, while White can teach the team some discipline and provide some structure to our forwards again, get the lineout and defence working again and teach our lads how to kick the fucken ball further than 8m.

Fischer had great success with White at the Brumbies, i'm sure he'd be happy to take over as forwards coach. Considering how well both of them did with players like Fardy, Sio, Mowen, Kimlin in turning them from nobodies or journeymen into Wallabies in less than two seasons, i'm getting a semi at the thought of them getting their hands on our current tight five stocks, with blokes like Valetini, Naisirani etc still to come into equation.

White and Fischer could create a truly fearsome pack of hard carnts out our current stocks, and with blokes like Banks, Petaia and the new speedsters coming through to add to our current crop, we'd have a lethal backline if Rennie was drilling them how to run with the ball again.

Keep Mick Byrne, but the rest have got to go. Larkham is the worst attack coach going, Grey the worst defence coach, and as soon as the new forwards coach came in we promptly lost almost every lineout we threw is his first test in charge? How in the hell can they be justified as coaches?

I'm done, and we wont win any of the next three tests either. Of the three after that, there's only one i'm confident of against Italy but the way we're playing and our ability to lose to bunnies, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if we lost to Italy.

 

[Derpus]

It's Growden again, but I can't argue with much of this.

Sure, we're skint and we'd have to pay Cheika out, but we'd make that money back pretty quick if we started winning again.

Get Jake White in with Dave Rennie as his assistant/attack coach on a one year contract to the WC with a clause that says they get the gig for 4 years after that if they win and their pay goes up (more cash available). Yin and Yang, let Rennie teach our guys how to run the ball again and counter attack, while White can teach the team some discipline and provide some structure to our forwards again, get the lineout and defence working again.

Fischer had great success with White at the Brumbies, i'm sure he'd be happy to take over as forwards coach.

I think you should resign yourself to Cheika coaching at the world cup.

 

[fatprop]

It's Growden again, but I can't argue with much of this.

Sure, we're skint and we'd have to pay Cheika out, but we'd make that money back pretty quick if we started winning again.

Get Jake White in with Dave Rennie as his assistant/attack coach on a one year contract to the WC with a clause that says they get the gig for 4 years after that if they win and their pay goes up (more cash available). Yin and Yang, let Rennie teach our guys how to run the ball again and counter attack, while White can teach the team some discipline and provide some structure to our forwards again, get the lineout and defence working again.

Fischer had great success with White at the Brumbies, i'm sure he'd be happy to take over as forwards coach.

Jake White? faaark off