The Wallabies Thread

[Derpus]

On attack Folau's ability to chime into the backline and create something in attack is unrivalled.

I think people get hung up on the fact that he isn't a great kicker and think he is out of position. He does a lot of things that you want out of a fullback incredibly well.

His ability to eat up metres and beat defenders is better than anyone else we have. I think you definitely want him getting his hands on the ball more, not less which again suits being at fullback.

I'm not sure the Wallabies are a better team with an inferior attacking player at fullback who kicks better and Folau on the wing.

This is going to hurt but i agree with Zero. Kind of. Maybe.

I think an under-appreciation of the kicking fullback is a decided weakness in the Wallabies set up. I think a good kicking full-back should be capable of dramatically improving your field position from the boot and, in the modern game at least, is more valuable than a good runner.

Having said that, it's not like we are choosing between a world class ball-in-hand attacker and a world class kicker. None of our fullbacks have a particularly spectacular kicking game. Bit of a moot point.

 

[Braveheart81]

Having said that, it's not like we are choosing between a world class ball-in-hand attacker and a world class kicker. None of our fullbacks have a particularly spectacular kicking game. Bit of a moot point.

I think this is the key point. We keep comparing people against someone who doesn't exist.

DHP is the obvious alternative option at fullback but I don't think he has close to a pinpoint accurate kicking game. I don't think any of our top players really do.

 

[Derpus]

I think this is the key point. We keep comparing people against someone who doesn't exist.

DHP is the obvious alternative option at fullback but I don't think he has close to a pinpoint accurate kicking game. I don't think any of our top players really do.

So many of these arguments end up in me feeling depressed because we are kind of a bit shit ay. Name a top 5 country that can't field a kicking fullback other than us?

 

[Zero_Cool]

I think this is the key point. We keep comparing people against someone who doesn't exist.

DHP is the obvious alternative option at fullback but I don't think he has close to a pinpoint accurate kicking game. I don't think any of our top players really do.

Firstly regarding all your points about Folau's attack all of those things he could do from the wing, in fact they would all be amplified on the wing


In rough order of appropriateness Beale, Lance, Hunt, perhaps Godwin; in the past when we have had Quade - Foley, and obviously DHP could have all been options. We can hardly test them if we are committed to a player playing out of position.

It's one thing to play Folau there when we have no alternative -- it's another thing to lock down a player playing out of position and ignore other alternatives. How many different options at fullback have the Wallabies played since Folau started playing there, I would say very few. One good example is Hodge -- had we not been swinging from 'Fullback Folau's' nut sack Hodge could have more than likely been exposed to playing 15, he would have then likely played some 15 at Super and we would now have a DHP-esqu fullback with a cannon for a boot! The issue isn't just that we are playing Folau out of position it's that we are NOT looking to play anyone else there passing over options who could be a good fit. Too many selections based on 'this is my guy' too much of a boys club. But that's current Wallabies culture.

 

[Derpus]

And here ends my agreement with Zero. Godwin as Wallabies fullback.

 

[Braveheart81]

Are you serious? Hodge should play fullback at test level so he gets more experience there at Super Rugby level? How does that make sense?

His games at 15 for the Rebels have generally not been good. He has a cannon boot but is inferior in just about every other way to Folau.

Beale has excelled at fullback in the past and obviously that's where he played a lot of his test career. He has well and truly become a 12 in my opinion and moving to 15 last test season coincided with his form dropping substantially.

I'm not really sure how Folau's attacking skills get amplified on the wing. The chance to join the backline when and where he wants and offload in either direction is far more possible from fullback than wing.

Folau has been comfortably the Wallabies best back over the last 5 years since he came to rugby union. He's won the John Eales medal 3 times as our best player almost all at fullback and you're saying that a problem with Wallabies culture is that we haven't moved him to try someone else there?

 

[eastman]

Firstly regarding all your points about Folau's attack all of those things he could do from the wing, in fact they would all be amplified on the wing

Folau has shown many times that he is more effective running between and beating defenders than just the last man and the touch line- how would this be amplified on the wing?

 

[Zero_Cool]

Folau has shown many times that he is more effective running between and beating defenders than just the last man and the touch line- how would this be amplified on the wing?

Cutting back in, finding work, lots of wingers play like that.

 

[TSR]

Firstly regarding all your points about Folau's attack all of those things he could do from the wing, in fact they would all be amplified on the wing


In rough order of appropriateness Beale, Lance, Hunt, perhaps Godwin; in the past when we have had Quade - Foley, and obviously DHP could have all been options. We can hardly test them if we are committed to a player playing out of position.

It's one thing to play Folau there when we have no alternative -- it's another thing to lock down a player playing out of position and ignore other alternatives. How many different options at fullback have the Wallabies played since Folau started playing there, I would say very few. One good example is Hodge -- had we not been swinging from 'Fullback Folau's' nut sack Hodge could have more than likely been exposed to playing 15, he would have then likely played some 15 at Super and we would now have a DHP-esqu fullback with a cannon for a boot! The issue isn't just that we are playing Folau out of position it's that we are NOT looking to play anyone else there passing over options who could be a good fit. Too many selections based on 'this is my guy' too much of a boys club. But that's current Wallabies culture.

Mate - your logic is all over the place. On the one hand you think Lance should be replaced at 10 for the Reds. On the other you have him second on your pecking order for fullbacks for the Wallabies. Your third choice is a guy not even playing at the moment.

Whatever - you are entitled to your opinions - and the odd left field suggestion makes for interesting discussion at times. But I think your over doing it.

 

[Mr Pilfer]

We should just agree on what are the definite selections and then work out the rest from there. Arguing about Folau at fullback or the Pooper are pointless as they will definitely be there.

Do we agree the below are certainties and are there any other?

1 Sio
2
3 Kepu
4 Arnold
5 Coleman
6
7 Hooper
8 Pocock (unless 6)
9 Genia
10 Foley
11
12 Beale
13
14
15 Folau

16
17
18 Tupou
19
20
21
22
23

 

[Derpus]

Arnold is suspended. Swap him out for Rodda.

I think Timu is a certainty for the first test at 6. Who else?

DHP will be one of the wingers as well.

 

[Zero_Cool]

Mate - your logic is all over the place. On the one hand you think Lance should be replaced at 10 for the Reds. On the other you have him second on your pecking order for fullbacks for the Wallabies. Your third choice is a guy not even playing at the moment.

Whatever - you are entitled to your opinions - and the odd left field suggestion makes for interesting discussion at times. But I think your over doing it.

Lance is a good player, at least he's playing well this season, I wasn't even saying he's the best option at fullback, I was saying he's a good kicking option at fullback. Same as Hodge. I wasn't even saying Hodge should necessarily play fullback just that if the position was open to consideration for anyone not named Folau and he might have played there more and he might grow into a fullback.
Lance is playing well, has a really good boot and would add some much needed starch to our backline. Beale is somewhat similar in that he's got a brilliant kicking game, and could offer really nice play off the back and would again allow us to bring some starch into our backline by having a more traditional 12. Would these guys be my selection for Wallabies 15 I'm not sure, that's not my point.

I was responding to the point that we have no one who can play fullback with a genuine kicking game -- we have several players who could. None of them will be considered for it because we are persisting with playing a limited winger (albeit an outstanding limited winger) at fullback.

 

[Braveheart81]

It is absolutely baffling why the Wallabies are "persisting" with the guy who has won three of the four John Eales Medals at fullback.

 

[Zero_Cool]

8 Pocock (unless 6)

The only way I can see us going with both Pocock and Hooper and Pocock not playing 8 is if we played Higgers at 8.
Timu isn't ready to play 8 at test level he doesn't hold the ball at the back of the scrum well enough yet, although on a defensive scrum could be at 8.

Plus, when I've seen him playing this year Pocock looks to have really upped his ball carrying and offloading game this year.

 

[Braveheart81]

I reckon Timu is odds on favourite to start at 8 with Pocock 6 and Hooper 7.

 

[Mr Pilfer]

I reckon Timu is odds on favourite to start at 8 with Pocock 6 and Hooper 7.

I like the idea of Timu at 8. Are we preferring Rona at 13 over TK and Kerevi?

 

[Zero_Cool]

Are we preferring Rona at 13 over TK and Kerevi?

Yeah, to my mind the centres are a hot mess. Both Kerevi and CFS have shown flashes of brilliance in the centres but they have also been god awful in defence at times too. I think Rona is a fine player but he's exactly that -- a fine player nothing special. TK has been awful in every game I've seen him in this year, but I've mostly been avoiding the Brumbies games because I'm not some kind of masochist (nor a Brumbies fan).

An option could be maybe Beale at 15, Folau to the wing and Kerevi/Rona in the centres. But that's change and Cheika don't like change (unless the players aren't told till game day).

 

[Derpus]

I like the idea of Timu at 8. Are we preferring Rona at 13 over TK and Kerevi?

On form yeah. I still think Cheika will stick TK in for his defense. He ditched him once and got stung.

 

[KOB1987]

An option could be maybe Beale at 15, Folau to the wing and Kerevi/Rona in the centres. But that's change and Cheika don't like change (unless the players aren't told till game day).

It's also just you having a different opinion to him.

 

[Slim 293]

It's been said before, but every year TK coasts through Super Rugby and then performs for the Wallabies....... so I wouldn't be surprised if he gets selected - although sometimes it requires him being dropped for a couple of games as a wake up call.

In that case I wouldn't mind Rona given a game or two to see how he goes............. Kerevi's defensive issues make him a poor substitute, and he seems to perform better at 12 anyways.