The Wallabies Thread

[Rebels3]

Serious question here but has anyone actually thought that Hooper is considerably more suited to the 8 role than Pocock?

 

[Braveheart81]

Serious question here but has anyone actually thought that Hooper is considerably more suited to the 8 role than Pocock?

Hooper is faster so he is better off the side of the scrum and Pocock has shown himself to be very good at the back of the scrum controlling the ball (and can provide more push there).

Hooper is seemingly better in the lineout and Pocock is a little better at the crash ball off a lineout with his extra bulk.

Hooper is a better link man and wide runner which suits the 7.

I think they are around the right way.

Pocock is clearly a better pilferer but that role isn't impacted by the set piece positioning or on attack when they play in pods.

 

[Derpus]

I love that there are still comments on facebook etc. that Hooper is actually a 12 or 13 not a 7.

They'll still be happening when he runs out for his 100th test in the 7 jersey.

He'll be the youngest Australian centurion too.

 

[Rebels3]

Hooper is faster so he is better off the side of the scrum and Pocock has shown himself to be very good at the back of the scrum controlling the ball (and can provide more push there).

Hooper is seemingly better in the lineout and Pocock is a little better at the crash ball off a lineout with his extra bulk.

Hooper is a better link man and wide runner which suits the 7.

I think they are around the right way.

Pocock is clearly a better pilferer but that role isn't impacted by the set piece positioning or on attack when they play in pods.

Good points, i was leaning towards the notion that Pocock isn't going to win the contact battle as well as a traditional 8, so instead of him been tackled in the 9/10 channel, Hoopers speed could get more out into the 10/12 channel allowing for greater ball retention and a stretching of the opposition defense. Agree Hooper on the side of the scrum in defense is ideal, perhaps as the Brums were trialing with Naisarani a different combo for attack and defense.

Guess this is the issue we have without a traditional 8 playing, strength somewhere, weakness somewhere else. I am however a proponent of having both of them on the field at once, it's just a matter of finding the complimentary player at 6 to make it work.

 

[Zero_Cool]

I love that there are still comments on facebook etc. that Hooper is actually a 12 or 13 not a 7.

They'll still be happening when he runs out for his 100th test in the 7 jersey.

Playing in a particularly jersey doesn't mean you are necessarily best suited to that role. I don't think those people are entirely wrong, look at Hooper's skills and abilities. I see an argument that for Hooper those point to him being most effective as a center. Similarly you look at someone like Taqele Naiyaravoro he's 6'5" 125kg runs the ball like a bull if you saw the guy with a jersey without a number on his back you'd surely think he's an 8. Again you look at Mathieu Bastareaud you'd think he's a prop you wouldn't think he plays a second playmaking 12!
Conversely you look at George Smith he's played everywhere professionally but he's a flanker because his skill set is best suited to that position. We have lots of different skill sets and many different ways those skills are put into the boxes we call positions.

I tend to agree Hooper would best fit in the 13 box but he plays 7, not a traditional 7 -- that's Pocock but due to a myriad of reasons Pocock plays 8 and Hooper plays 7... and we have a lot of weird and wonderful back row combinations to make up for that.

 

[Slim 293]

Lets be real tea for a second. Who cares what rugby players have to say about anything other than rugby? They are paid to smash their heads into other peoples heads, ya know?

To an extent........ but your highest profile player making inflammatory homophobic comments like that are (rightfully) likely to offend a lot of people, including a major sponsor..........

I think he’s lucky that it hasn’t received more attention........ yet.

 

[Zero_Cool]

Good points, i was leaning towards the notion that Pocock isn't going to win the contact battle as well as a traditional 8, so instead of him been tackled in the 9/10 channel, Hoopers speed could get more out into the 10/12 channel allowing for greater ball retention and a stretching of the opposition defense. Agree Hooper on the side of the scrum in defense is ideal, perhaps as the Brums were trialing with Naisarani a different combo for attack and defense.

Guess this is the issue we have without a traditional 8 playing, strength somewhere, weakness somewhere else. I am however a proponent of having both of them on the field at once, it's just a matter of finding the complimentary player at 6 to make it work.

One thing you could do is play a traditional 8 and have Pocock and Hooper play 6 & 7. But we come back to the fundamental issue we really are undermined by playing both Pocock and Hooper as neither of them can lineout (well at least).

Maybe if we play Rodda and Coleman as our locks and a jumping third loose forward (whoever you want really) we can minimise our exposure to this issue. But we can only control the attacking lineout numbers so teams will go with 8 man lineouts and just throw to the holes... Ultimately we probably need to move away from the Pooper combination and play a traditional 6 and 8, because decent teams can too easily expose the weaknesses of it.

 

[Braveheart81]

Hooper has exceptional pace for a 7 and an excellent distribution and linking game. Move him to 12 and he suddenly isn't that fast nor is his passing and playmaking ability good for that position.

He was probably been the most accurate with cleanouts for the Wallabies and if you move him to 12 he does a whole lot less of those. He also gets through less tackling which is a strength.

He has an unbelievable motor which would be less of an asset playing 12 where he isn't required to get through as much distance in a game.

He finished second in Super Rugby for pilfers/forced penalties last year. I'm not really sure what he has to do to convince people that 7 is obviously the position he is best suited for.

There are very few out and out pilferers at 7 left in the game now and few of those are excelling at international level. They have all developed other strengths to provide a more complete package because the role of a modern 7 is about far more than just attacking as many defensive breakdowns as possible.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Think it will be (if fit) the tried and tested Sio, TPN, Kepu combo. The same combo thats been fairly decent the past few years. On the bench it'll be the QLD combo with Uelese inbetween which will make it one of the best bench scrummaging reserve combinations going around. Tupou for me needs and deserves to be picked, he has been great all year, plus he adds much needed ability in the contact zone thats need if we play Pooper. I like AAT but he is not showing signs of improvement the past 12 months, infact he appears to be down on energy and workrate to what he was this time last year and has been underwhelming at set piece. He's got it in him to be a good player but looks to have stagnated.

With the Pooper combo most likely going ahead Rodda is a must pick with his ability to win the contact zone, its going to be important to get some go forward from our front 5. At 6 i'd probably go Hanigan but that's far from convincing. Timu off the bench to bleed him into the side. Think we are going to surely miss McMahon, he'd be the perfect foil off the bench with his versatility to either go out and add some go forward or even ability to assist Hooper or Pocock to slow down the ruck.

I really think you need to be looking a bit harder at Allan A's game v the Tahs. He was the standout prop on the ground and actually had a high workrate. The scrum was unrewarded last Saturday. On a number of occasions the Brumbies were going forward against the Tahs' feed, including the scrum leading to Naiyaravoro's first try. Another ref at another time would have penalised the Tahs' scrum for collapsing (see the very first scrum of the match too) but the ex-Qld half back called play on when it probably should have been advantage Brumbies. When does a scrum going backwards and down get to use the ball if they are on the ground before it comes out?

 

[TOCC]

So does Wales have this much angst when they run out Tipuric & Warburton?

Comparing Tipuric & Warburton to Pocock & Hooper ignores one of the biggest weaknesses of Pooper and one of the biggest strengths of Tipuric and Warburton.

Due to their height and athleticism Tipuiric and Warburton are often used as primary jumpers for the Welsh, during the 2017 6 Nations they took more line outs then the locks.

Hooper and Pocock are not primary line out jumpers, they simply don't have the height or wingspan on them. Good for the occasional ball to the back, but thats about it, and thats what creates the liability for the Wallabies.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

He'll be the youngest Australian centurion too.

And not just the youngest Australian centurion either I'd have thought. Goes OK for a Strayan

 

[Slim 293]

Based on the most recent test season, I would actually have McMahon over Hooper, with Pocock and another lineout option.

Alas..........

 

[TOCC]

Lets be real tea for a second. Who cares what rugby players have to say about anything other than rugby? They are paid to smash their heads into other peoples heads, ya know?

I think you might find that gay people care, that advocacy groups care and some sponsors would certainly care.

If he has an opinion which tells other people they are going to hell, then I personally don't care, but perhaps he should avoid expressing that on social media.

 

[Wilson]

Alaalaatoa isn't a loose head prop(not these days anyway), he is a tight head prop and his scrummaging in 2018 hasn't being great, he has conceded a few tight-head scrums. In fact, AAA probably stands as the most to lose at this stage, with a good chance Tupou may take his spot as the reserve THP.

Slippers scrummaging has been solid and his workmate has been ahead of Sio's in 2018, Faulkner and Robertson will be scrapping it out for the squad position in the wallabies.

1. Slipper
2. TPN
3. Kepu

16. Sio
17. BPA
18. Tupou/AAA

Absolutely, we've got some good depth on both sides of the scrum now I don't see any reason to swap props away from the side of the scrum they're playing at super level, particularly not in the starters.

Think Tupou is almost guaranteed a place in the 23, he's earned it on form and lots of decisions are going to be made with an eye on the world cup - there's just too much upside to him having 15 or so caps experience by then.

That said if kepu were to get injured/suspended before the Ireland games I wouldn't be surprised if AAA started and Tupou still got his experience of the bench, allow him to work his way into international rugby. That might also be a case for slipper to be on the bench with him, bringing them on as a unit to close out games.

 

[hammertimethere]

I retain the opinion that with the summary of their two skill sets the Wallabies tend to get more out of an in form Pocock at 7 than they do out of Hooper (on average). Hooper's speed and ability to play the link man would work more than adequately at 8 he's also handier in the lineout though far from outstanding). Then you select an 6 in a horses for courses approach (a lineout option with wide running ability i.e Higgers/Hanigan or a bruiser i.e Tui/Naisarani when eligible. Timu is a bit of both).

Personally I'd be keen for the Wallabies to go with the following for the first June Test.
4. Tui (if he hits top form, Arnold if not)
5. Coleman
6. Hooper
7. Pocock
8. Higgers

19. Rodda
20. Timu

3.5 Jumpers with a worker and a bruiser on the bench works well for the set piece. In the 1-3-3-1 attacking shape you play Hooper and the other backrower on the edges. Defensively, from scrums Hooper is openside to shoot out and Pocock 8 as a lurking jackle and from line outs Pocock stands at 9 and Hooper at the tail or in the 10 channel. Everyone's skillsets are used to best effect with no major compromises.

If Dempsey makes a great return from injury (possible though I'm not optimistic given the timeframes and the nature of the injury) then Higgers would drop out in an ideal world. Hanigan is an improving option (and will probably end up starting) but I don't think he's quite what is needed for a good balanced back row.

 

[hammertimethere]

Also, for the sake of combos I'd start with last year's front row starting and the entire Reds front row on the bench.


In summary, I'd want the Wallabies to line up something like this for Ireland
1. Sio
2. TPN
3. Kepu
4. Arnold or Tui
5. Coleman
6. Hooper
7. Pocock
8. Higgers
9. Genia
10. Foley
11. Koroibete
12. Beale (covers 10)
13. TK
14. Folau (covers 15)
15. DHP

16. BPA
17. Slipper
18. Tupou
19. Rodda
20. Timu
21. Gordon
22. Hodge (covers 12 and 15)
23. Naivalu (covers 11, 13, 14) though you could make a good case for Naiyaravoro based on current form

 

[Slim 293]

Higgers?

Is there any chance of him playing for the Wobs again?

 

[Zero_Cool]

I retain the opinion that with the summary of their two skill sets the Wallabies tend to get more out of an in form Pocock at 7 than they do out of Hooper (on average). Hooper's speed and ability to play the link man would work more than adequately at 8 he's also handier in the lineout though far from outstanding). Then you select an 6 in a horses for courses approach (a lineout option with wide running ability i.e Higgers/Hanigan or a bruiser i.e Tui/Naisarani when eligible. Timu is a bit of both).

Personally I'd be keen for the Wallabies to go with the following for the first June Test.
4. Tui (if he hits top form, Arnold if not)
5. Coleman
6. Hooper
7. Pocock
8. Higgers

19. Rodda
20. Timu

3.5 Jumpers with a worker and a bruiser on the bench works well for the set piece. In the 1-3-3-1 attacking shape you play Hooper and the other backrower on the edges. Defensively, from scrums Hooper is openside to shoot out and Pocock 8 as a lurking jackle and from line outs Pocock stands at 9 and Hooper at the tail or in the 10 channel. Everyone's skillsets are used to best effect with no major compromises.

If Dempsey makes a great return from injury (possible though I'm not optimistic given the timeframes and the nature of the injury) then Higgers would drop out in an ideal world. Hanigan is an improving option (and will probably end up starting) but I don't think he's quite what is needed for a good balanced back row.

I do prefer Tui because he helps both in the lineout and with the ball running, but I wouldn't call him a 'full' line out option, not relative to Colman or Rodda perhaps he's like 0.8 he's decent because he's enmous and athletic, but he's probably about as good as the good lineout back rows (Hanigan/Korczyk/Higgers for example).
Also I still think Rodda has been immense for the Reds doing the dirty work so he probably doesn't get the notice he should, and he can bend the line.

(Also everyone look I said bad things about a Reds player!)

 

[jimmydubs]

Personally I'd be keen for the Wallabies to go with the following for the first June Test.
4. Tui (if he hits top form, Arnold if not)
5. Coleman
6. Hooper
7. Pocock
8. Higgers

3.5 Jumpers

If Dempsey makes a great return from injury (possible though I'm not optimistic given the timeframes and the nature of the injury) then Higgers would drop out in an ideal world.

I see that as 3.05 jumpers, not 3.5. Drop higgers for Dempsey and we are down to what 2.5?

The only argument that makes any sense that I’ve seen for pooper is that they are two great players so you have to start them. I don’t agree with it but it makes some sense. The rest of the arguments espousing the virtues of hooper or pocock as an 8 or 6 are all pretty sketchy to say the least.

 

[KOB1987]

So does Wales have this much angst when they run out Tipuric & Warburton?

I understand TOCC's point about the lineout strength of those two, but my comment about the use of Cane and Savea at the same time seems to have been conveniently ignored