The Wallabies Thread

[upthereds#!]

The issue with picking solely on form from the most recent games is that it's such a fluid benchmark and result. Come selection time is it the most recent game? most recent 2/3/4 games? best average across all games so far?

 

[TSR]

The issue with picking solely on form from the most recent games is that it's such a fluid benchmark and result. Come selection time is it the most recent game? most recent 2/3/4 games? best average across all games so far?

Agreed. But surely it is still a discussion worth having in the context of the topic. Or is it actually just me that thinks so? Who are the guys taking their chances who may, at some point, come into the frame for selection. The form team will change consistently and I don’t actually see anyone suggesting current form is going to result in significant changes to the test side.

 

[Derpus]

Timu aside, wish we had a few more 6/8's hitting some form. Wallabies are going up against a phenomenal Irish backrow and we won't even have McMahon.

It's not enough to have one player doing okay. We need multiple options in each position.

How do we solve this? If Timu is 8 we can't play the Pooper or we will never win a lineout again. We could play RHP at 6 with Pocock/Hooper rotating starting and bench 7. But i'm not really convinced a third second rower will really cut the mustard.

Dempsey may be an option. Big injury to get over though. Despite Higgers poor performances for the Wallabies historically, he may be in simply because we have no better options.

My money though, is on Hanigan to start at 6 again.

 

[upthereds#!]

Reading an article that Simon wasn't originally on cheikas list for coach, and that his name might come as a surprise as it wasn't one of the names being thrown around prior to the announcement. Does anyone know what names were actually being considered prior to his appointment?

 

[Braveheart81]

Certainly agree (as long as Chek is the coach)

He's also turning 32 this year. It's not like Wallaby selection is going to get more likely for him in the future. Realistically I don't think it would matter who the coach was. With the players available they're not going to fashion a backrow around Higgers.

The reality with Higgers is that he brings a certain skillset which when in form is very, very good. He isn't a classic number 8 in some senses though and will always perform best when a backrow is chosen to complement his skills. That's all well and good when he's the best backrower you have but that has never been the case for him in the Wallabies.

 

[fatprop]

Timu aside, wish we had a few more 6/8's hitting some form. Wallabies are going up against a phenomenal Irish backrow and we won't even have McMahon.

It's not enough to have one player doing okay. We need multiple options in each position.

How do we solve this? If Timu is 8 we can't play the Pooper or we will never win a lineout again. We could play RHP at 6 with Pocock/Hooper rotating starting and bench 7. But i'm not really convinced a third second rower will really cut the mustard.

Dempsey may be an option. Big injury to get over though. Despite Higgers poor performances for the Wallabies historically, he may be in simply because we have no better options.

My money though, is on Hanigan to start at 6 again.

With Hooper and Pocock odds on selections in the backrow, we will need someone with lineout abilities to fill the third spot and I think someone who has the ability to lurk in wider channels as well.

The Pocock/Hooper nexus generally means Pocock takes the ruck area with Hooper and another lurking wider

I don't think Hanigan fits that bill, he was a better fit for the centre work with McMahan & Hooper, less so on the edges

 

[Zero_Cool]

Timu aside, wish we had a few more 6/8's hitting some form. Wallabies are going up against a phenomenal Irish backrow and we won't even have McMahon.

It's not enough to have one player doing okay. We need multiple options in each position.

How do we solve this? If Timu is 8 we can't play the Pooper or we will never win a lineout again. We could play RHP at 6 with Pocock/Hooper rotating starting and bench 7. But i'm not really convinced a third second rower will really cut the mustard.

Dempsey may be an option. Big injury to get over though. Despite Higgers poor performances for the Wallabies historically, he may be in simply because we have no better options.

My money though, is on Hanigan to start at 6 again.

Yeah, we can't start Hanigan AGAIN at 6, we tried that all last year and I'm yet to see any good that came out of it. While he has put on some bulk he's still a country mile away from test level. But you are right -- Cheika will select him.

I just really don't think we can sustain both Pocock and Hooper in the same starting XV at least not without completely fucking the rest of the pack. Even if we select Coleman and Rodda (probably the two best lineout locks in Australia) our lineout would still be average at best, unless we select a third second row to play 6.

One option that could be worth looking at (if he'd played some games!) is Tui at 6 with Pocock at 8 and Hooper at 7. Tui offers you the same plus' as Hanigan at 6 but also gives you that line bending ball running Pocock and Hooper lack.

 

[Derpus]

I'd argue that Hanigan is more mobile and probably does more work than Tui, but i do like the sound of that back row.

Plus then we couldget away with a 5 forward bench with say Hanigan/RHP and another Lock , probably Philip. Plenty of 5/6's.

 

[Scrubber2050]

Maybe to fit Poey into the team he'll have to be selected alongside Coleman as a lock !

 

[RugbyReg]

Reading an article that Simon wasn't originally on cheikas list for coach, and that his name might come as a surprise as it wasn't one of the names being thrown around prior to the announcement. Does anyone know what names were actually being considered prior to his appointment?

Stiles was one.

 

[fatprop]

Maybe to fit Poey into the team he'll have to be selected alongside Coleman as a lock !

I think Hanigan will be a bench option to cover 6 & lock at best.

 

[Braveheart81]

Hanigan is far more mobile than Tui and also has experience playing 6, something Tui doesn't have.

I think Hanigan is currently playing better than he was last year when he was selected.

If Pocock starts at 8 with Hooper at 7 then Hanigan again complements them pretty well.

Dempsey's return will be interesting. He doesn't have a long window to prove that he is ready to play test rugby in June though.

Caleb Timu would definitely be the number 8 who I could see pushing Pocock to the bench with Hanigan or Dempsey starting at number 6.

Matt Philip us the curve-ball number 6. I think he's the most mobile of the locks and would slot into that role the best.

 

[fatprop]

I think Dempsey & Higgers look the most likely

 

[Derpus]

So what about second row then. Obviously, Coleman. We then have both Arnolds, Tui, Philip, Douglas, Rodda, RHP, etc? I couldn't choose.

 

[Up the Guts]

If we play Hooper and Pocock then Rodda must start as we’ll need his lineout prowess.

 

[Rebels3]

I'm not sure about Pocock and Hooper, both being automatic picks. I think given we have two potential genuine 8's to pick (Higgers or Timu, with Nisarania to qualify soon too, maybe ) I don't know that you can continue to justify selecting both Pocock and Hooper in the starting 15.
The other thing pushing this is that we have a number of genuine options emerging at 6 (Wells and Korczyk for example).

Given this it's going to be really hard to pick both a genuine openside (Pocock) and a center/openside hybrid (Hooper). I still think Cheika will select them both, but I think that's the wrong choice.

I think we have proven Pocock and Hooper can't both co-exist in the same team and you get the best out of both of them. And looking at it, if you have to pick only one of them (relying on previous form for Pocock) I think you start Pocock and bring Hooper off the bench.

I don't think that's what Cheika will do. I'm almost half expecting Pocock, Hooper and Hanigan to be the back row regardless of form and only partially considering injury. Such is Chieka's selection.

That's surely worthy or a GAGR yellow card

 

[upthereds#!]

Sorry BH but I really don't know how Hanigan complements Pocock and Hooper. Somehow with them we need a both a 3rd jumper and an enforcer. Hanigan is not an enforcer and I think that the strength is what is needed most (2019 Naisarani). The only way around it is to make sure both starting locks are monsters to cover the lightweight Hanigan otherwise we won't be able to dominant the collision area often enough. Bench needs muscle then also, so we can't afford Simmons (sorry check). Could go super super mobile with Dempsey off the pine also but I don't think our mobile players will be mobile ENOUGH for it to be a point of difference against the Irish.

To make Hanigan work:
Sio Uelese Kepu
Coleman Arnold
Hanigan Poey Hoops

16. TPN 17. Slipper 18. Ala'alatoa 19. Rodda 20. Tui/Timani

 

[Derpus]

Enforcer or effective ball carrier? You'd think with McMahon out that's what we need to replace most.

 

[Up the Guts]

Maybe to fit Poey into the team he'll have to be selected alongside Coleman as a lock !

Pocock as a hooker and he can play like Creevy.

 

[Braveheart81]

Sorry BH but I really don't know how Hanigan complements Pocock and Hooper. Somehow with them we need a both a 3rd jumper and an enforcer. Hanigan is not an enforcer and I think that the strength is what is needed most (2019 Naisarani). The only way around it is to make sure both starting locks are monsters to cover the lightweight Hanigan otherwise we won't be able to dominant the collision area often enough. Bench needs muscle then also, so we can't afford Simmons (sorry check). Could go super super mobile with Dempsey off the pine also but I don't think our mobile players will be mobile ENOUGH for it to be a point of difference against the Irish.

To make Hanigan work:
Sio Uelese Kepu
Coleman Arnold
Hanigan Poey Hoops

16. TPN 17. Slipper 18. Ala'alatoa 19. Rodda 20. Tui/Timani

I disagree. Primarily the thing we need most with Pocock and Hooper as the other backrows is a lineout technician. That is definitely a strength for Hanigan.

Aside from that he has excellent workrate.

The thing that has to improve immensely from his 2017 test form is his accuracy at the breakdown. He missed too many cleanouts last year primarily because he was too close to the tackled player to be able to make an effective hit.

So what about second row then. Obviously, Coleman. We then have both Arnolds, Tui, Philip, Douglas, Rodda, RHP, etc? I couldn't choose.

Coleman, Rodda, Arnold, Tui and Philip seem like a clear top 5 to me. Douglas is playing pretty well too but I see those first five guys filling the spots. We've finally got some good depth there with well rounded players.