The Wallabies Thread

[TSR]

Honestly I'd only give him 4 or 5

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Replace prop for lock. http://wesclark.com/rrr/proptalk.html

 

[Joe King]

Really interesting read:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11895816

Some snippets:

A new book claims the two most important figures in New Zealand rugby's excellence were not coaches, they certainly weren't administrators and they might not have even been the best players. Dylan Cleaver runs the rule over the new theory.

on page 65 of The Captain Class: The hidden force that creates the world's greatest teams. The new book, researched and written by Wall Street Journal deputy editor of enterprise (and former sports editor) Sam Walker, identifies the on-field captain as the most important precursor to extraordinary success.

The American has identified what he believes are the 16 greatest teams of all times, using an involved formula that measured sustained, domineering excellence

Expecting the common denominator between the Tier One teams to be the usual suspects of superstar players, enlightened coaching and administration, or financial muscle, Walker was shocked to learn this wasn't always the case - in fact it usually wasn't.

"On a whim, I decided to make a list of the primary player-leaders of these 16 teams to see if any of their careers also served as bookends for their teams' Tier One performances," Walker wrote. "The results of this exercise stopped me cold. [Every team's dominant] performance corresponded in some way to the arrival and departure of one particular player. In fact, they all did. And with eerie regularity that person was, or would eventually become, the captain."


In the case of the two All Black teams the players were Wayne 'Buck' Shelford, who became captain after the 1987 World Cup victory until his controversial axing in 1990, and Richie McCaw, who was captain for the entirety of New Zealand's second spell of primacy until retiring in the immediate aftermath of consecutive World Cup victories.

I'm sure it's more than the captain that has led to NZ's dominance in rugby in general, but the captain might be the single most important cog in the wheel in making the AB's more dominant at particular times compared to others???

I wonder if it's been the same for the WB's: 1984-86, 1991-94, 1998-2002?

 

[wamberal]

Nah. Far too simplistic. The dominance of the ABs throughout the history of the game is to do with far more than who happens to be the captain at any particular time.


Given the culture of the game over the dtch, it is hardly surprising that they manage to throw up some good captains, as well as some good everything elses.

 

[Scrubber2050]

Most of us think the AB's will belt us in the RC.

If the Saffas play anything like the Lions did yesterday we are really looking down the barrel.

 

[Viking]

Staniforth plays for the Tahs now....

Nooooo

 

[Viking]

I disagree, I think Carter is the bed rock of the Brumbies pack. You get the same solid consistent efforts from him every week and you need guys who just do that work and can be relied on.

I think that is why Douglas is in the training camp as well, these guys too often get overlooked for someone who drops in and out of games, but shows flashes of brilliance (like Dempsey and some of the young Qld locks) and then become invisible. We see a big run or hit and don't see the guys cleaning out or as with Douglas at the Tahs, shooting in defense and bashing 10s all game.

Far call. Carter fits that mould. Much like Simmons did. Although I'm not so sure Douglas does? He is far from consistent.

 

[RoffsChoice]

Far call. Carter fits that mould. Much like Simmons did. Although I'm not so sure Douglas does? He is far from consistent.

I think it's fair to say that the top three locks in Aus this year have been (in this order) Coleman, Arnold, and Carter, and they should be the Wallabies locks accordingly.
Not far behind are guys like Matt Philip and Izack Rodda.
And we know Kane Douglas and Rob Simmons can reach that level, so they shouldn't be out of consideration.

 

[TSR]

I think there is still a fair gap back to Rodda, to be honest. Which is to be expected given his age. He has done some really good things, but needs to be more consistent.

 

[TOCC]

Far call. Carter fits that mould. Much like Simmons did. Although I'm not so sure Douglas does? He is far from consistent.

Douglas certainly doesn't fit the mould, his workrate and accuracy are average, and he doesn't have the same impact he once did. It's easy to be seen why he struggles for game time against Rodda and Tui.

Simmons and Carter are of the same mould, technically proficient locks who won't make the highlights reel.

 

[Killer]

Douglas certainly doesn't fit the mould, his workrate and accuracy are average, and he doesn't have the same impact he once did. It's easy to be seen why he struggles for game time against Rodda and Tui.

Simmons and Carter are of the same mould, technically proficient locks who won't make the highlights reel.

Rory Arnold if fit should be in the squad before Douglas and Simmons. Building depth does not mean giving endless opportunities to those who have shown very little all year.
Set up squad competition with the young and hungry.

 

[fatprop]

Rory Arnold if fit should be in the squad before Douglas and Simmons. Building depth does not mean giving endless opportunities to those who have shown very little all year.
Set up squad competition with the young and hungry.

I think we are talking about the forth lock spot behind Arnold Coleman and Carter

 

[RugbyReg]

I think we are talking about the forth lock spot behind Arnold Coleman and Carter

I've got a sneaky suspicion he meant Richie.

 

[Brumby Runner]

I would also rate Blake Enever above Rodda and Tui atm. Not to say they won't overtake him, and others, in time but just right now he would be a starting lock in any of the other franchises imo.

 

[Killer]

I think we are talking about the forth lock spot behind Arnold Coleman and Carter

oh ok, thanks, my speed reading is shit.
For Simmons and Douglas to be considered they must perform during the year or show their worth V the young guns. But it seems the young guns are not getting an opportunity?

 

[TOCC]

I actually rate M. Phillip ahead of Douglas, Simmons, Tui, Rodda, Enever

Arnold and Coleman to start, Carter should be reserve on current form, also throw Ned Hanigan on the bench as the back row reserve who can also play lock if required.

 

[TOCC]

Is Naisarani qualified for Australia?
If so he should be in the squad, likewise with Ross Haylett-Petty who IMO is in far better form then Dempsey and Korczyk.

At openside, I'm not sold on Hardwick, the second best open side in Australia on form behind Hooper is George Smith, and after him i think Colby Fainga'a is the next best. Im not entirely sure how Hardwick got in there ahead of Fainga'a and Alcock.

 

[Slim 293]

Is Naisarani qualified for Australia?
If so he should be in the squad

I don't believe so, and agreed - he should be in the squad if he was.........

The backrowers we do have in the squad, aside from Hooper......... meh.

 

[upthereds#!]

Naisarani will most likely get his chance as as 8 with Timani in 2018 once Mcmahon is gone, sooner for EOYT if he is eligible by then.

Personally would have picked RHP on form ahead of Dempsey or even Korzyck in the wider training squad.

Hopefully both Naisarani and RHP get a shot with the Baabaas if it's an Aussie heavy group. With the timing of Japanese and European seasons, could very well be domestic playing NZ, SA and Aussie heavy squad

 

[amirite]

Most of us think the AB's will belt us in the RC.

If the Saffas play anything like the Lions did yesterday we are really looking down the barrel.

Last year's Lions were better than this years and this years Boks are better than last years. I don't think the correlation is too big.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Isi has been quite outstanding for us this season and I'd like to see him Wallaby qualified, because he provides something we really need: dynamic and up the guts ball carrying in traffic. Imagine being Michael Hooper running off his shoulder for 80 minutes.