The Wallabies Thread

[fatprop]

Fardy is better than both in tight, is a decent jumper & is in form so he gets 6. I can't imagine anyone really thinks Hooper and Higgers in the run on team is a good idea. You can't have two loosies playing wide in a test, Hooper is better out wide than Higgers by a fair margin.

That being said Timani has played very little rugby.

Honestly, none of them suit 8 particularly well.

How old are Palu's kids?

Fardy's challenge is the lack of dominant tackles and cleanouts

 

[upthereds#!]

I think Higs is better in the wide channels, hooper is best utilised in the centres as a link man. But yes a Fardy, Higs Hoops combo is lacking at the contest. Fardy is a pest at the breakdown, not a dominant force, and definitely not dominant in the collision. I think this is why Timani is becoming so valuable, and why I could not be happier that two of our leading locks (Coleman and Arnold) are actually dominant physically in their positions unlike simmons, mumm carter and the sometime douglas.

We need bullies at the collision, big bodies to get over the advantage line and big bodies to act as road blocks to other big bodies. Powerful men who can get in and literally move an opposition in the ruck, or they themselves own the space in attacking rucks and can hit hard enough to provide quick ball. Higs silky skills, speed, aggression and strength are awesome, but not WITH Fardy, it would be more of an instead of. Like...6.Higs 8.Timani 7. Pocock would have a great balance. For us now, a 6.Fardy 8.Timani 7. Hoops probably provides the best balance with Higs skills utilised off the bench to get some scored in the tail end of the match.

RHP could be a great no.6 bully but not yet. He is having a good super rugby season. Let him have an epic NRC season, another great Super rugby season and then talk about him getting one of the backrow positions freed up by the departing Mumm and Fardy. Same with Hanigan, Naisarani and Holloway. We have enough experienced quality available, to prepare for the upcoming RC & Bledisloe. Those guys who are in good form now but lacking in experience shouldn't be thrown into the fire just yet. Let them join some wallaby camps between now and this time next year, and start the conversation for real again. Same would apply for Tupou & Lomax

I would happily throw some form back names out there, like Peni, Perese, Clarke & Rona, but they should as well just be ear tagged as development players and taught the ropes for post WC and 'just in case'. IMO, between now and the world cup, I don't think it's realistic that incumbents like Hodge, Beale, Kerevi, Tk, Speight, Naivalu, DHP Folau will go anywhere.

As an example, last year people spoke of Kellaway being a wallaby, well the first question to ask is, as a wing/fullback in a squad of limited size, who would he overtake. Folau? DHP? Hunt? Even now himself has been surpassed by Clarke. Thank goodness JOC (James O'Connor) didn't come back. Oh and Beale and Hodge offer greater utility value. If he does have another shot at being a wallaby, realistically, he would have to wait until 2020, which to me is a far better age and far more experienced stage to be debuting for the gold jersey. Too many youngsters are pinned as 'future wallabies' and struggle to make the grade.

 

[amirite]

His skills at the base are OK. Higgs is much more accomplished there and at running from there. Kieren Reid runs in the wide channels from 8. There is no reason our 8 cannot do the same. Maybe we need to think about changing how the Wallabies run their channels and their shape based on recent results?

Reid runs wide because I think the ABs run a 242 (at least the Saders do). Wallabies have run 161 or 1331 for the last couple of years.

If you're changing the shape, or the role within the shape, because of the myth Higgers is a god at the base of the scrum that's silly. The difference would be marginal to non-existent, whereas his pace off the side of the scrum and not having to 'channel cross' (having the 6 work past the 8 to get into place) could well be a factor in performance.

It's a successful shape, that's not the issue. Execution of skills within the shape (and discipline in executing it) probably is.

 

[Joe Blow]

I am not suggesting he is a god in any respect, but neither is Timani at 8. It is not a successful shape for us recently and surely our game should be tailored to the players we have. I have no problem if or where he plays but going on form he should be in the mix. He is good on the ball and could easily back up Hooper in that area. Timani is also pretty handy on the pill but am not sure he is an automatic selection based on Super rugby form.
Selections will be interesting and Cheika will need to come up with a group that is capable of playing above and beyond what we have seen so far this year from our Super Rugby sides.

 

[RoffsChoice]

Hopefully we get a strong showing from Kerevi at 12 this weekend! His attacking ability is incredible, but he lacks the awareness to properly defend as a 13. Would be great to see him and Kuridrani given time in the centres, we really abandoned it too quickly after last June.

 

[amirite]

Hopefully we get a strong showing from Kerevi at 12 this weekend! His attacking ability is incredible, but he lacks the awareness to properly defend as a 13. Would be great to see him and Kuridrani given time in the centres, we really abandoned it too quickly after last June.

Adding to that, it's important to remember - Nonu was a terrible distributer once too. Kerevi is a good passer but he can fail to be 'reactive' sometimes.

Still, he has amazing 'gravity' when he plays, think about how much space a distributing Keveri could create for threats outside him. Wow.

If Mick Bryne (amongst others) could turn Nonu into one of history's better 12s, surely we could do something with Kerevi.

 

[fatprop]

Adding to that, it's important to remember - Nonu was a terrible distributer once too. Kerevi is a good passer but he can fail to be 'reactive' sometimes.

Still, he has amazing 'gravity' when he plays, think about how much space a distributing Keveri could create for threats outside him. Wow.

If Mick Bryne (amongst others) could turn Nonu into one of history's better 12s, surely we could do something with Kerevi.

Hoiles suggested that the problem with Kerevi is often the supports; in that they are too flat and wide instead running lines closer and from depth which more suits Kerevi's distribution

 

[Brumbieman]

Kerevi is a 12 who's been playing at 13.

The Reds should be aiming for a Cooper-Kerevi-Perese midfield, that's their strongest by far.

 

[Twoilms]

Adding to that, it's important to remember - Nonu was a terrible distributer once too. Kerevi is a good passer but he can fail to be 'reactive' sometimes.

Still, he has amazing 'gravity' when he plays, think about how much space a distributing Keveri could create for threats outside him. Wow.

If Mick Bryne (amongst others) could turn Nonu into one of history's better 12s, surely we could do something with Kerevi.

A 12 who can't distribute or defend. Sounds great, and keeping in line with the Australia policy of shoe-horning in a player who excels at one facet of the game and ignoring all others.

Somehow i doubt Kerevi will become Nonu 2.0.

 

[Brumbieman]

Hopefully we get a strong showing from Kerevi at 12 this weekend! His attacking ability is incredible, but he lacks the awareness to properly defend as a 13. Would be great to see him and Kuridrani given time in the centres, we really abandoned it too quickly after last June.

Foley doesn't have the passing game to play a Kerevi-TK pairing, if we went with that you need Cooper running the show. If that happens though, they need to be taught how to support Cooper properly though.

 

[Braveheart81]

I'll be surprised if Kerevi gets a look in at 12 for the Wallabies this year. His ability as a ball player has gone backwards this year if anything.

 

[Brumbieman]

Nonu had almost no ball playing skills when he first started out, but he developed them over time, and that's what we should be doing with Kerevi IMO.

Put him next to Quade, let him learn how to support him and when to take the hit ups, and work on his distribution/kicking skills over time. He has one outstanding quality, the trick in coaching is develop the weaker parts of a players game until they are as strong as their main skill.

Kerevi could be devastating as a combo with Quade, hitting those short flat balls like Fainga'a used to do, but with much more skill and speed.

 

[Brumbieman]

Sio
Latu
Kepu
Coleman
Arnold
Fardy
Hooper
Smith

Powell
Cooper
Folau
Kerevi
Kuridrani
Speight
Hunt

Show me the moneeeey

 

[Braveheart81]

Nonu had almost no ball playing skills when he first started out, but he developed them over time, and that's what we should be doing with Kerevi IMO.

Put him next to Quade, let him learn how to support him and when to take the hit ups, and work on his distribution/kicking skills over time. He has one outstanding quality, the trick in coaching is develop the weaker parts of a players game until they are as strong as their main skill.

Kerevi could be devastating as a combo with Quade, hitting those short flat balls like Fainga'a used to do, but with much more skill and speed.

Nonu played about 30 tests on the wing before he ever had a shot at 12.

Do you really think Quade is ever going to be the first choice Wallaby 10 again if everyone is healthy? I think the gap between him and Foley is increasing and Cooper never seems to be able to be completely injury free anymore.

 

[Brumbieman]

Oh it's a pipe dream, but that's what i'd be picking and sticking with. He's only 27/28, he still potentially has 4 of the best years of his career ahead of him if things worked out. It's also worth pointing out that Cooper's service from the 9 has been atrocious all year. Also missed a couple of games but the Reds have been faaar more threatening in attack when Cooper is on the field. Night and day.

Bench of

Gordon
Foley
Beale

As those two I think would be better suited to closing a match out. Foley with his composure, Beale replaces the sheer wildcard aspect that Cooper brings.

 

[RoffsChoice]

Right now, Foley is the definite first choice 10. Beyond question.

But if the best centre pairing option in Australia (not that it is yet, but it certainly could be) isn't considered viable because of Foley, then eventually we have to address that.

 

[Brumbieman]

Foley is at his best when paired with a second ball player. eg Giteau, Lilo, Beale

Cooper is at his best when he's in charge, and has players around him that understand they'll get the ball on their chest if they're the one running into the gap. Train the backline to just charge at a gap, and Cooper will hit them if they've got a gap in front of them.

I do have a fairly specific model of backline that I prefer though, so I am biased towards that.

 

[Braveheart81]

If you track back through Cooper's best test rugby, the overwhelming majority of it was played with a ball playing 12.

But if the best centre pairing option in Australia (not that it is yet, but it certainly could be) isn't considered viable because of Foley, then eventually we have to address that.

You would have to wait until Kerevi is the best option at 12 to determine that. Right now I think he's way off that.

His passing is nowhere near good enough.

 

[KOB1987]

Foley is at his best when paired with a second ball player. eg Giteau, Lilo, Beale

Yep. And Cheika has been busting to get 10. Foley 12. Beale on the pitch since the RWC ended in 2015. He'll get his chance in about a months time and he won't pass up the opportunity.

 

[cyclopath]

Foley doesn't have the passing game to play a Kerevi-TK pairing, if we went with that you need Cooper running the show. If that happens though, they need to be taught how to support Cooper properly though.

I must be missing something, but what is so complex about passing from 10 to 12 or 13? I think either of those guys is just as dangerous running off a Cooper flat ball at an angle, or an offload from Foley running it to the line. Either option can, and probably would, work.