The Wallabies Thread

[Alex]

The ABs beat us through skills, decision making, workrate and athleticism not random crash ball impact players.

The ABs beat us because they won the set piece and the gain line. The Wallabies kept it interesting through brilliant scrambling defence and breakdown work. This will keep us in any game, but is not a blueprint for consistently beating the best teams. If we want to beat the ABs consistently we have got to at least know we will win our own lineout ball and find a way of bending the line and putting the team on the front foot. We have relied heavily on Kuridrani, Folau and Hooper in the centres for this, but at the pointy end of the WC they were not able to deliver.

A big unit or two in the forwards who can carry in close and put the team on the front foot would be invaluable. Chieka loves getting someone behind the defensive line and then flooding the channel with support players. If we are playing the Farpooper, the big linebender close to the ruck has to come from the tight five, which is why Chieka is investing so much in Skelton. He's not there yet, but it is not obvious who the other options are for this role. Vaea can perform the role, but he is not a lock?

McMahon to hooker?

 

[Alex]

Really? Douglas was the most important forward in 2014 in the Tahs side. I said at the end of 2014 that they would struggle to replace him and was shouted down a bit for it. It turns out his loss was pretty huge after all for the Tahs and Chieka was able to get him back to playing the way he did in 2014 (if not better) fairly quick. It is why I think he was selected in front of Horwill. (Note my oft repeated opposition to players being selected for the Wallabies without first having played that season for an Australian Super side still stands).

His world cup form was a revelation for anyone who'd been to a Leinster game last year.

 

[fatprop]

The ABs beat us because they won the set piece and the gain line. The Wallabies kept it interesting through brilliant scrambling defence and breakdown work. This will keep us in any game, but is not a blueprint for consistently beating the best teams. If we want to beat the ABs consistently we have got to at least know we will win our own lineout ball and find a way of bending the line and putting the team on the front foot. We have relied heavily on Kuridrani, Folau and Hooper in the centres for this, but at the pointy end of the WC they were not able to deliver.

A big unit or two in the forwards who can carry in close and put the team on the front foot would be invaluable. Chieka loves getting someone behind the defensive line and then flooding the channel with support players. If we are playing the Farpooper, the big linebender close to the ruck has to come from the tight five, which is why Chieka is investing so much in Skelton. He's not there yet, but it is not obvious who the other options are for this role. Vaea can perform the role, but he is not a lock?

McMahon to hooker?

That is one way, the ABs don't use it though, they use teamwork, great skills across the board and workrate.

Sure their set piece is effective, but to me that is a given of a decent side

A big linebender often means in the Aus context, if you stop them, you stop the go forward.

To me, the better option is to use speed, brains, ball skills, technique and workrate. That spreads the threat across the park.

Fast ruck ball will beat the realigning defense eventually, then we need the brains and skills to pick out the mismatch and leverage it.

The ABs are really good at using the ball to break down defenses, they use short passes before contact often to get go forward by stopping dominant tackles, they are also very good decision makers as to when they commit to the ruck so they have the uncommitted numbers.

So they know when to commit and their workrate means that they are realigning and ready for that next phase.

 

[Brumby Runner]

To me, the better option is to use speed, brains, ball skills, technique and workrate. That spreads the threat across the park.

Hit the nail on the head FP.

 

[gel]

To do that, the players need to be well coached year round - not just when we are playing tests.

Is that actually happening now? I believe two of our franchises are poorly coached (one of which, with a ridiculous degree of ineptitude). It is evident that the wallaby coach has to first undo some stuff before he can get the players to do what he wants. The ABs (although slow starters each test season) at least look like they know what they are doing.

I would really like the ARU to take over the reigns of appointments sort of like the NZ rugby do, but based on historical evidence whatever system unfolded would end up in the hands of people more concerned with politics and back scratching than with the health of the game.

It's truly heartbreaking for me to watch it year after year with false dawn after false dawn.

 

[Pfitzy]

One thing that is often missing under Cheikaball is pick n go without the pop pass from the ruck, and with the ABs just fanning out we're easy meat for the one-out or second/third channel runner.

Pick n go two phases, see what's on. Open-open-blind. Occupy as many defenders as possible.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

One thing that is often missing under Cheikaball is pick n go without the pop pass from the ruck, and with the ABs just fanning out we're easy meat for the one-out or second/third channel runner.

Pick n go two phases, see what's on. Open-open-blind. Occupy as many defenders as possible.

Totally agree Pfitzy, we need a bit of pick and go around the edges to get the defence crabbing backwards ever so slightly. Then go a wider, with guys like Foley hitting the ball flat to the gain line. Ideally you want to go around the corner and then explode into contact with a flat ball to a moving forward pod, then get it out to the backs.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

I could be wrong but I reckon Godwin's ship has sailed.

Agree with Kerevi but outside him a youngster like Jim Stewart or David Horwitz could be more in their sights.

Having watched Jim Stewart play for stars for last 2 seasons I just can't see him making super rugby first side let alone higher honours - just does not seem that extra star quality edge to his game.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

And Luke Jones too, I am pretty sure both those players will be given game time next year

Jesus you dropped Speight pretty quick..

Speight has just not been the player he was 2 years ago. Not sure if his time has indeed past.

 

[Slim 293]

Speight has just not been the player he was 2 years ago. Not sure if his time has indeed past.

He was probably in career best form 16 months ago before recurring hamstring injuries...............

Suggesting his time has passed after one below average season (by his standards) is ridiculous.

 

[Gnostic]

Speight has just not been the player he was 2 years ago. Not sure if his time has indeed past.

Actually I don't think Speight's form this year was much down on previous years. The attack style at the Brumbies doesn't favour wingers very much, especially wingers without a kicking game, and that is the key point I think has seen him fall down the pecking order for test selection. If we want a non kicking winger, then Horne is better at finishing at close range as the stats for the last two years show, and a better defender. That leaves Speight with his one big defining aspect, speed. It just isn't enough to get him over other options. He really, really needs to develop a kicking game, then he will become first choice again as there are few real pace options at the moment.

 

[Slim 293]

Tomane certainly overshadowed him at the Brumbies this year, playing much like what Speight was the two years prior...........

Those two and Horne will likely fight it out for one wing spot next year, with the need for a kicking winger on the other side - but I don't know who that would be?

I still think Beale is still suited as a non-starting impact player off the bench available to cover 12, wing and fullback.

 

[I like to watch]

He is a more rounded 10, his running game holds up defenses, giving his outsides more space because he is a running threat - I actually see one of his biggest strengths is decision making when not to pass, he very rarely gives the ball to someone in a worse position, he will calmly take the contact instead.

There are better ball players, runners, defenders and kickers, but at the moment there is not a better all round 10 available.

To me, today, the closest is Lilo

I don't see it at all.
I'm not suggesting he's not the best we have,simply that his running game is grades above his kicking out of hand and his ball playing.

Watching any highlights reel,it's 95% of him running the ball.

There's a reason why Cheika insists on pairing him with a ball playing 12,whilst he pairs Quade with the strongest runner of the 12 options.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Speight has just not been the player he was 2 years ago. Not sure if his time has indeed past.

He'll be back - just like Poey.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

He'll be back - just like Poey.

Sevens gig may be the go to get some spark back from him. Sadly not convinced that his use by date for Wallabies has expired. Just not offering much to be highlighting he is our next wallaby wing sensation.

 

[Mr Pilfer]

Tomane certainly overshadowed him at the Brumbies this year, playing much like what Speight was the two years prior.....

Those two and Horne will likely fight it out for one wing spot next year, with the need for a kicking winger on the other side - but I don't know who that would be?

I still think Beale is still suited as a non-starting impact player off the bench available to cover 12, wing and fullback.

Is everyone just assuming that Mitchell and Gits were having their last wallabies fling for the World Cup or have they actually retired from international rugby. I don't think they should but could they still be playing next year?

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

I'm making the assumption that they won't be back next year.

 

[Bullrush]

Totally agree Pfitzy, we need a bit of pick and go around the edges to get the defence crabbing backwards ever so slightly. Then go a wider, with guys like Foley hitting the ball flat to the gain line. Ideally you want to go around the corner and then explode into contact with a flat ball to a moving forward pod, then get it out to the backs.

Pick and go is a shit option when you 'pick', look up, see this guy, and 'go'


backwards

 

[cyclopath]

Pick and go is a shit option when you 'pick', look up, see this guy, and 'go'


backwards

View attachment 7250

You'd hope your 6 could tackle a winger.

 

[Bullrush]

You'd hope your 6 could tackle a winger.

Maybe this is a better one for you then?

Or this one?

Please don't pretend that Kaino is not one of the biggest and hardest hitters in the game today.