The Use Of The TMO

[Scott Allen]

I think the increased use of the TMO is a real positive - it helps reduce the possibility of a "howler" determining the outcome of a game and it's not taking too long to get decisions.

Most of the instances I've seen it used have been to check specific issues the referee or assistant referees were concerned about but in the Cheetahs v Stormers game it sounded like the referee wanted the TMO to check if there was anything in the two phases prior to a try, rather than having any specific concerns. I hope that doesn't become a trend because otherwise we'll have every try checked, which will take too long.

The other aspect of the new use of the TMO is the referees asking for the clip to be put up on the big screen so they can review their own decision and make a quick decision.

 

[USARugger]

I really like the use of the big screen the way they are doing it now. Provides a great level of transparency for the fans. Sometimes it's easy to miss exactly what happened on the pitch if you're a ways up in the stands.

 

[yourmatesam]

I went to the Brumbies Bulls game recently and was surprised to see the TMO clips being shown on the big screen. It was great to see, although it was an eerie feeling watching a game of footy where everything stopped and all the players and officials watched the clip for 30 seconds or so and then got back into it!

 

[Inside Shoulder]

The present system, subject to the incident in the Cheetahs v Stormers game (which I have not seen), is far superior to either the NRL or the NFL. The beauty of the big screen, judging by what I've heard the refs saying, is that as soon as the onfield ref is comfortable the process stops and he makes his ruling.
I agree with Scott Allen that we do not want to let the refs get into the habit of juts checking the prior 2 phases for the sake of it.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

How about we use the TMO for this:

 

[Braveheart81]

I agree that the increased use of the TMO, particularly in the case of foul play has been great. Clearly you want to get rid of howling errors.

The one shame in the Cheetahs vs Stormers game is that one howling error (a blatant accidental offside where the Stormers player kicked the ball ahead into his own player several metres in front of him) was missed in a phase before a penalty was given that the Stormers scored off. Thankfully for the Cheetahs, they won the game after the siren so it didn't matter.

I think the combination of using the TMO for foul play (or the referee getting the replay put on the big screen is also great). Increasing the rate at which people are caught for foul play is the best way to reduce it.

 

[terry j]

Thankfully for the Cheetahs, they won the game after the siren so it didn't matter.

.

arrghh.

have not seen it yet!

damn my eyes for reading that.

 

[Braveheart81]

arrghh.

have not seen it yet!

damn my eyes for reading that.

Sorry for the spoiler.

Definitely worth watching though. Very exciting game.

 

[Slim 293]

Most of the instances I've seen it used have been to check specific issues the referee or assistant referees were concerned about but in the Cheetahs v Stormers game it sounded like the referee wanted the TMO to check if there was anything in the two phases prior to a try, rather than having any specific concerns. I hope that doesn't become a trend because otherwise we'll have every try checked, which will take too long.

I didn't have any sound at the pub but was Walsh also doing this in the Highlanders v Blues games with a couple of their tries?

I got the feeling he was checking some of the passes just for the sake of checking them..........

 

[Braveheart81]

I didn't have any sound at the pub but was Walsh also doing this in the Highlanders v Blues games with a couple of their tries?

I got the feeling he was checking some of the passes just for the sake of checking them....

He generally specified what he wanted looked at. It did come with a general "check for such and such or anything else in the last two phases".

The one interesting call Steve Walsh made was to change his decision that the Nonu shoulder charge only warranted a penalty and upgraded it to a yellow card when the replay was shown. Whilst he should have waited for the replay to make his decision first, it was a good result as it was a definite yellow card offence.

 

[cyclopath]

I didn't have any sound at the pub but was Walsh also doing this in the Highlanders v Blues games with a couple of their tries?

I got the feeling he was checking some of the passes just for the sake of checking them....

In one of them, a pass looked pretty flat (so fair enough), in the other, the Highlanders players were asking him to check one. In the end, both were right the first time, and I'm not sure opposition requests for referral should be the norm, unless they are alleging foul play.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

I'm not sure opposition requests for referral should be the norm, unless they are alleging foul play.

Absolutely spot on.
It may have been Walsh or another ref on the weekend but he seemed to be receiving complaints from players some of which he gave in to and asked to have a look.
They may need to look at a sanction for asking - didnt/dont they have that in cricket?

 

[Braveheart81]

Absolutely spot on.
It may have been Walsh or another ref on the weekend but he seemed to be receiving complaints from players some of which he gave in to and asked to have a look.
They may need to look at a sanction for asking - didnt/dont they have that in cricket?

The one thing rugby has right about this in relation to cricket is that it is in the hands of the referees. Of course teams that have just been scored against will want everything reviewed. Even if there is absolutely nothing that is likely to be overturned, most teams that have just had a try scored against them would value a slightly longer break before play resumes.

The DRS system in cricket would be better if it was purely a tool for umpires to help them make the correct decision. A player's ability to referee/umpire the game should never be an important skill in any sport.

 

[Rob42]

So the TMO can adjudicate on forward passes? That's a hornet's nest, I reckon, with camera angles and attempting to judge not whether the ball has travelled forward over the ground but instead was passed forward by the player. I hope it's only for blatant forward passes, but then - how do you define that?

 

[Braveheart81]

So the TMO can adjudicate on forward passes? That's a hornet's nest, I reckon, with camera angles and attempting to judge not whether the ball has travelled forward over the ground but instead was passed forward by the player. I hope it's only for blatant forward passes, but then - how do you define that?

I watched most of the games on the weekend and think they got them right.

The only one that was disallowed from memory was James O'Connor's tap on which was forward.

Several of the ones that were awarded as tries travelled forward in absolute terms but weren't forward passes because they left the hands backwards.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

I watched most of the games on the weekend and think they got them right.

The only one that was disallowed from memory was James O'Connor's tap on which was forward.

Several of the ones that were awarded as tries travelled forward in absolute terms but weren't forward passes because they left the hands backwards.

I agree - that JOC (James O'Connor) one was quite a fine line I thought but I too think it was forward. There didn't seem to be too much complaint when it was ruled that way.
The decision making process was probably helped by the fact Gus Gould was not making ridiculous observations about the path of the ball relative a to a line marking.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

An interesting trend is developing where the referee is becoming a self appointed TMO for a some decisions. The TMO is being relegated to a role similar to the Floor Producer for coordinating the replays on the Big Screen for the Referee to watch and adjudicate himself.

Referee: "John, will you put up on the big screen the tackle by the Blue winger on the White number 10? I think it is all right but I just want to see if White was tackled in the air."

I think this is a good move if there is a big screen at the venue.

 

[Braveheart81]

I agree.

There is no reason that the TMO needs to review these decisions themself but it is a good step for the referee to take to watch a replay so they can make a better decision.

This should mean that there are less sin bins for tackles that aren't illegal and more for ones that are which is the result you want.

 

[Rassie]

I have to show this. Think the TMO could help with this

 

[Rassie]

While we on this and I am glad a thread like this was made as I have a million incidents that would not be picked up by TMO due to him ball watching and do only know the laws of the game and nothing about defenses and tactics.

Forgive me if I post a couple of Aussie examples as well but I am not whining about it. Actually I am glad it wasn't noticed and the referee was positive and allowing it on both sides. All one can ask for.

Jacque Fourie held onto so the hole could stay open obstruction

Again Aussie defender blocking Fourie from providing cover defense or from drifting -Obstruction

SA flanker holding on Aussie flanker causing the Aussie 9 to let go of his sweeper role and go for Spies. Fourie danced through where the sweeper on cover was nowhere to be found. - Obstruction

Schalk Burger blocking Pocock and create a hole for JdV - Obstruction

And I am not going to even start with NZ try in the WC final where McCaw got a handful on the France defender holding him back obstructing him from making a tackle. Leave that one for now.

As you can see what kind of scenario a TMO can create once they get whispered in the ear by someone to look for these things. It will spoil a nice open game and it will spoil the entertainment. No one noticed it. TMO is a potential for disaster where it is going to end up calling things like Advertisements on someones nose hair due to camera technology improving and rail cams, ref cams, McLoiter Cams, Toilet Cam, Ball cam and whatever cam getting added where we end up watching a 80 minute in a stretch of 4 hours. Let the guys in the middle call it. If it was wrong its wrong it will give us something to discuss for a week or two or till the next problem. I do not watch rugby to watch replay of rugby. If I wanted that I would go watch NFL