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The unfairness of the conference system illustrated right here...

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mech4bg

Allen Oxlade (6)
It's easy for people from other states to whinge about the new teams, but I think having the 5th team is great.

- It balances the conference system
- We're finding far more talent than we would have otherwise (e.g. look at the Brumbies)
- 10-15,000 fans who show up each week in Perth and Melbourne actually get to watch some rugby and have a team - you wouldn't believe how happy it's made all my mates in Melbourne to have local rugby. Yes a lot of people are ex-pats but I've noticed a lot of Melburnians getting into it.
- It expands Rugby in new areas and expands the playing pool even further. Victorians who previously had to head north can now continue to call Melbourne home and help develop the game here.

You can't expect overnight results, but really things aren't looking as bad as people think. I don't quite get where the perception that the other conferences are much more powerful comes from. The Kiwi conference looks the strongest, with the Chiefs and Crusaders looking like contenders, and the Highlanders putting in a great showing. But the Blues are rubbish this season and the Hurricanes are blowing hot and cold.

Similarly what's so great about the SA conference? Bulls looking good, but the Brumbies almost had them at home. Stormers are title contenders and probably among the best in the comp, but are not unbeatable. Cheetahs and Sharks look okay but are inconsistent, but then the Lions are utter rubbish.

The Reds would be looking a lot better if they hadn't been hit by such horrible injury crises. Waratahs are doing their usual thing they've been doing for 5 years or more, being pretty iffy to begin with but doing enough to scrape into the finals long-term. The Force are actually doing quite well given how many people they've lost, and are doing no worse than they did under a 4 team system. Brumbies are doing better than they have in a while. Rebels are probably the only real disappointment this year - strong signs in the preseason haven't led to results on the field, especially the last few games. Seems like all the defence lessons have been forgotten.

TL;DR - give it time, it will need good management, but I think the 5 team system is good for Australian rugby.
 

liquor box

Peter Sullivan (51)
SAffer and Kiwi fans should blame their unions for agreeing to the conference system and 5 teams for Oz. The unions did it for the money so they should sent them a fax and not start threads on the matter here.

Some Aussies didn't want the 5th team either, because we don't have the depth; many objected to the 4th team earlier also. Blind Freddie could see that the chances of winning Super would be better with only 3 or 4 teams.

Others, like me, said that if they had a choice between having a national domestic competition and another Super team, they would choose the NDC every day of the week, but since the ARU couldn't afford to have one we would take the 4th team and then the 5th team - though 5 was enough.

Having the 4th team means the numbers of professional players in Oz increases by 33%, and having the 5th, 25%, more on that. Giving those extra pro players a gig tends to keep more in the country and helps to identify more Wallaby candidates - or if they stay in Oz regardless, they are noticed sooner.

I'm going to save that post and cut and paste it for next week when there is another whinge.
I wonder if you could use the 5 S15 teams to form a national cometition, each franchise has to fund (dont know how!!) 2 teams each, one being their academy, and the other a "best of" from Club Rugby. If you perform well in Club Rugby through the season you get promoted to the "Super club rugby" team and then if you impress you get an academy spot, then into S15.

I think we need both S15 teams and a nation competition to bring through the next buch of players and we need a stepping stone to get from club rugby to S15 for people who are not high school sensations.

I like the current system for getting the finals teams
 

Troy

Jim Clark (26)
From other franchises we only picked up Siliva, Mowen, Prior and Sitauti. 2 haven't even played yet, and I wouldn't say any were unwanted by their previous clubs.

BG I was generalizing between the Reds & Brums, the Reds picked up a few unwanted players last year in Beau, Samo, Harris etc etc the Brums have more been able to unearth quite a few good players that hadn't been on the radar before.
 

Scarfman

Knitter of the Scarf
There's an assumption here that because the Brumbies are on lower points than other Kiwi/Saffer teams, they must be worse. But since the conference system, you can't say that, because they play different teams.

Small print: but yeah, they are worse.
 

PaarlBok

Rod McCall (65)
Stormers 33
Bulls 33

As it stands, the Brumbies qualify 3rd (as the top Aussie team) despite being behind the Bulls, Highlanders, and Crusaders on points. I think this is unfair
I have warned about this from the start. Another one is the qualification for top of the conferense like we have in the SA conferense. In the past it was point differense first, now it sound like wins first. Dunno where that comes from. Cant find where its been stupilated that wins is the deciding factor, can anyone look this one up please?
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
In the event that two or more teams are equal on points in any position on either the Conference or overall Vodacom Super Rugby standings at any time during the regular season their ranking will be determined as follows:

  • Most wins from all matches

  • Highest aggregate points difference from all matches

  • Most tries from all matches

  • Highest aggregate difference in tries for and against from all matches

  • Coin toss (only used to determine Finalists)

This was new last season. Prior to that, most wins was not considered at all.
 

FrankLind

Colin Windon (37)
SAffer and Kiwi fans should blame their unions for agreeing to the conference system and 5 teams for Oz. The unions did it for the money so they should sent them a fax and not start threads on the matter here..

Including 5 teams from Aussie was okay, this doesn't mean that one team from each country MUST qualify in the top three.

I would be say it is unfair REGARDLESS of which country is benefiting.

It just strikes me as bullshit. I didn't know it has been posted here many times before, which I guess is unsurprising, because it is bullshit.
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
This is pretty common for any sport that uses a conference system but has a single overall table (such as NBA basketball (which has two conferences with separate divisions within those two conferences)).

The only system that is completely fair is a double round robin where you get a home and away fixture against every team. Every other system is going to have some level of unfairness.

If the winner of each conference wasn't guaranteed a top 3 position then you could argue that it creates an unfair situation because of the different strengths of each conference. The fact that at this stage the weakest two teams in the competition would appear to be the Blues and the Lions can give rise to the argument that this improves the chances of the NZ and SA teams scoring higher.
 

PaarlBok

Rod McCall (65)
In the event that two or more teams are equal on points in any position on either the Conference or overall Vodacom Super Rugby standings at any time during the regular season their ranking will be determined as follows:

  • Most wins from all matches

  • Highest aggregate points difference from all matches

  • Most tries from all matches

  • Highest aggregate difference in tries for and against from all matches

  • Coin toss (only used to determine Finalists)

This was new last season. Prior to that, most wins was not considered at all.
Thanks Boet, link to these rules?
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
You lot have been pretty shite this year. You should get another team and get a promotion regulation system going like SA.

The Bondi Scaffolders?

It could be a team made up of Kiwis who can't get a gig with a NZ team with an allowance for a few Australian imports.
 

p.Tah

John Thornett (49)
Well the Saffas and Kiwis may now whinge because of a perceived unfairness, but you'll be be bloody happy to have the set up if we get our act together and develop our playing stocks further.
 

qwerty51

Stirling Mortlock (74)
You lot have been pretty shite this year. You should get another team and get a promotion regulation system going like SA.

Actually it's the Lions and Cheetahs who have been shit, still have not recorded a victory against the Sharks, Bulls or Stormers. The Force have beaten the Tahs and Reds. Face it, our conference is more competitive and the system favours your lot. Matches outside the conference have no relevance to the conference system so I don't know why you keep bringing them up.
 

PaarlBok

Rod McCall (65)
Actually it's the Lions and Cheetahs who have been shit, still have not recorded a victory against the Sharks, Bulls or Stormers. The Force have beaten the Tahs and Reds. Face it, our conference is more competitive and the system favours your lot. Matches outside the conference have no relevance to the conference system so I don't know why you keep bringing them up.
Ja I brought this up again? Look who started the thread? We have been there done this before many times.
 
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