The Tom Carter incident

[Bruce Ross]

A courageous and well argued response to the viciousness of the attacks on Tom Carter this week from Drew Mitchell writing in the Daily Terror this morning:

Tom Carter walks the walk as well as he talks the talk

LET'S get this clear at the outset, sledging is part of sport.

It is something that every rugby player has been involved in, whether it be giving some out or being on the receiving end. Mostly it’s both.

It might be verbal, it sometimes gets physical.

It happens in every game, and it happened for the 79 minutes prior to Tom Carter’s interaction with Digby Ioane in last weekend’s Queensland game.

Why Tom has been singled out and hammered all week is beyond me.

I am of the opinion that if something happens on the field in terms of sledging, it should stay out there.

It was unfortunate the comments about Tom were even brought up and turned into headlines in the first place.

But it was even more disappointing to see and hear some of the views expressed in sections of the media this week.

Some experts – including ex-players who should understand what goes on in games – have taken it to an unnecessarily personal level.

Instead of sticking to footy, some have questioned Tom’s character without knowing the guy and that’s pretty ordinary form.

Sure, Tom is the type of player who does get under people’s skin. He’s done it successfully to me in Super Rugby and club games.

When I came to the Waratahs, however, I finally got to know him and got to see there is a hell of a lot of value in having him on your team.

Tom is a passionate guy who is able to promote an emotional response from someone on the field. It distracts them from what they should be thinking about in the game.

They’re focused on how they can sledge back or put a hit on, and not what they’re supposed to be doing at the point in time.

That’s the way Tommy plays. And don’t for one minute think he’s the first to do it.
George Gregan was a master sledger. Willy Genia is a guy who always has a sharp line or two.

That’s not to say Tom Carter is, as some have alleged, just a bigmouth with limited talent.

Not only is he an invaluable team man around the Waratahs who always keeps enthusiasm and spirit high, he’s a very strong footballer.

Take a look at last year’s stats for Australian centres and tell me who outperformed Tom Carter.

Here’s just some of the categories he topped in that spot during the 2011 season: tries, runs, metres gained, linebreaks, tackle busts and tackles made.

He missed half as many tackles as the player with the second-highest tackle tally.

And that doesn’t even factor workrate, like his kick-chases or repeat efforts.

Tom doesn’t get the attention or plaudits other players get but he certainly deserves them.

When you are playing against him, you love to hate him.

But when you are playing with him, you know his true value to the group. And you wouldn’t change a single thing.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sp...e-talks-the-talk/story-fnc2d2yx-1226286628733

 

[barbarian]

A courageous and well argued response to the viciousness of the attacks on Tom Carter this week from Drew Mitchell writing in the Daily Terror this morning:

Corageous? Jeez turn it up.

I can get the argument about him sledging others to put people off their game. I accept it sometimes works well and the bloke had a good season in 2011.

BUT

He must know that playing such an in-your-face style will sometimes backfire. It's a dangerous game. And when it does backfire (as it did on Saturday) he needs to be prepared to wear the consequences.

And if he can't take what was dished out to him this week then he should change the style of game he plays. He made his bed this way, now he has to lay in it.

Which to his credit he has. He hasn't said a word in the press. So good on him, and I hope he has a barnstormer tonight.

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[Jnor]

A courageous and well argued response to the viciousness of the attacks on Tom Carter this week from Drew Mitchell writing in the Daily Terror this morning:

Some of those stats and lines in Drews article look familiar...

 

[Bruce Ross]

Corageous? Jeez turn it up.

I can get the argument about him sledging others to put people off their game. I accept it sometimes works well and the bloke had a good season in 2011.

BUT

He must know that playing such an in-your-face style will sometimes backfire. It's a dangerous game. And when it does backfire (as it did on Saturday) he needs to be prepared to wear the consequences.

And if he can't take what was dished out to him this week then he should change the style of game he plays. He made his bed this way, now he has to lay in it.

Which to his credit he has. He hasn't said a word in the press. So good on him, and I hope he has a barnstormer tonight.

Yes, courageous in the sense that he's prepared to draw some of the heat onto himself in order to stick up for a mate and the truth as he sees it. A lone voice in a baying crowd - that takes courage in my book.

And this garbage about "playing such an in-your-face style" backfiring "as it did on Saturday". The encounter with Ioane had zero impact on the game. Carter wasn't penalised for it and he was not in any way responsible for the fact that other players missed regulation tackles.

Tom Carter has been playing exactly the same confrontational style in Super Rugby for four seasons and for almost a decade in Sydney club rugby. Lots of nonsense from armchair warriors about what they would do to him, but he fronts up every week and mixes it with the best in Southern Hemisphere rugby and no one has sorted him out yet.

And week after week he has to put up with heroes hiding behind pseudonyms belittling him on chat sites. Thanks to our moderators what appears here is relatively restrained. But he just shrugs his shoulders and gets on with what he is paid to do.

 

[daz]

And week after week he has to put up with heroes hiding behind pseudonyms belittling him on chat sites. Thanks to our moderators what appears here is relatively restrained. But he just shrugs his shoulders and gets on with what he is paid to do.

Sorry Bruce, but I do have to pull you up on this. Every single person who does something in the public gaze gets commented on by "heros behind pseudonyms" these days.

Some belittling of public figures even occurs by people with faces who should know better; exhibit A for the prosecution is the tawdry comments made by George Negus and some stupid tart towards an Australian VC winner this week. (As an aside, charging a machine gun nest is courageous. Sticking up for a mate is merely the right thing to do).

I am not a big fan of personal attacks by any stretch, but in all honesty, if Tom Carter is worried about what a few "hero's behind pseudonyms" say about him on a chat site, he really should go off and do something else. I don't for a second believe he would give a shit, and nor should he.

 

[barbarian]

Bruce it was more than the encounter with Ioane, he was involved in little stoushes throughout the game. As he often is. And whilst it is wholly within the laws of the game, some of it is very provocative and dare I say unsportsmanlike stuff (patting people on the head after they knock on, whooping in someone's face after they are hit in a big tackle etc).

I don't have too much of a problem with it, but he must realise it can make him look like a complete pork chop if things fall the wrong way, as it did on Saturday. He shouted in Digby's face, thinking the Tahs had won the game. He was proven incorrect, and has copped the bollocking he deserved. I obviously don't agree with some of the personal stuff on forums, and I'm more referring to the flack he copped in the mainstream press.

As for his whether his actions affected the performance of the team, in those final seconds I agree his actions contributed nothing. I am far more dirty at Carter for calling for the kick ahead, when a senior player such as himself should have calmed things down and instructed the halfback to keep the ball in hand.

I respect Carter for getting on with the job, I really do. But that doesn't excuse the fact that his actions on Saturday made him look pretty silly, which can sometimes be the consequence of his confrontational, at times unsportsmanlike style.


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[Ash]

I don't mind sledging... But in this case, sledging Ioane (along with a nice little head shove to the ground) about losing the match with a minute to go, then watching the other team run 70m to score the match winning try, makes you look like a complete muppet.

I hardly see how sledging the opposition for losing with 1 minute to go is "courageous" behaviour. Maybe someone can explain it to me? And when you end up losing the match, does it make it more "courageous"?

There's a difference between standing up in people's faces, and being a prick. The 79th minute sledge to a prone Ioane was solidly on the "prick" side in my book. Getting in someone's face in the 10th minute and standing up is confrontational. Yes, Carter does this. There's being a great team mate and running in to support your team mate no matter what. Yes, Carter does this, and I respect it - I think it's a great trait.

Sledging and mouthing off at a prone player (and a much better one and respected one to boot) makes you a wanker. Yes, Carter does this. There's sleding, there's being a gentlemen on the park, and then there's being what Carter did at the end of the Reds game. And I don't respect that. And it surely doesn't come part and parcel when being "confrontational".

Sorry Bruce, I know you know him personally and like him, and have followed him for years at Sydney Uni, but I can't wholly agree on your assessment.

edit: Beaten to the punch by Barbarian! Damn you Baabaa.

 

[Ash]

...some of it is very provocative and dare I say unsportsmanlike stuff (patting people on the head after they knock on, whooping in someone's face after they are hit in a big tackle etc).

Agree with this too. It's one of my pet hates when someone from the opposition team runs over and "congratulates" a person from the other team for making a mistake.

If you make a huge tackle to dislodge a ball, sure have a say. If you are 5m and run in to pat the guy on the other team who dropped the ball, well, I think that's pretty unsportsmanlike.

 

[waratahjesus]

Can we talk about the game now, honestly just start another Tom Carter thread already and follow it up with a "QLD are all angels and never sledge or do anything wrong" thread and let this one be about the Tahsand maybe even the Rebels a bit.

 

[Slim 293]

Carter got what he deserved for carrying on like an arrogant twit when Shipperley raced away for the try...

Greg Martin and Drew Mitchell didn't need to chime in with these ridiculous articles...

 

[matty_k]

exhibit A for the prosecution is the tawdry comments made by George Negus and some stupid tart towards an Australian VC winner this week.

That was also the biggest media beat up of the week much like this Tom Carter sledging thing. George, Kumi and the other one were having a dig at the stereotype of guys that have a body like Robert-Smith. He even came out and said that he got the joke, thought it was funny and didn't give it another thought until the media started calling.

 

[Ash]

Can we talk about the game now, honestly just start another Tok Carter thread already and follow it up with a "QLD are all angels and never sledge or do anything wrong" thread and let this one be about the Tahsand maybe even the Rebels a bit.

Sure, agree we should all move on in this thread, but maybe you should drop the obsession about what the Reds did or didn't do (and I would be shocked if players like Higgers weren't big sledgers), because it has little relevance to what Carter did (right or wrong).

Back to the topic: just how much do you think it will cost the Rebels, having a bye first up?

I expect the Tahs to be more cohesive than last week, and expect the Rebels to be struggling, like most of the other teams did, on attack.

 

[Slim 293]

That was also the biggest media beat up of the week much like this Tom Carter sledging thing. George, Kumi and the other one were having a dig at the stereotype of guys that have a body like Robert-Smith. He even came out and said that he got the joke, thought it was funny and didn't give it another thought until the media started calling.

Boy is that an understatement...

It's a shame the mainstream Aussie media would rather stir up its large bogan viewship rather than reporting any real news...

But real news doesn't get yahoo7 or ninemsnn flooded with comments about how "un-Australian" it is...

 

[waratahjesus]

Sure, agree we should all move on in this thread, but maybe you should drop the obsession about what the Reds did or didn't do (and I would be shocked if players like Higgers weren't big sledgers), because it has little relevance to what Carter did (right or wrong).

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Ash, it is relevant. If what Carter did was wrong enough for the level of outrage this week then surely, Digby who brought it up, QLD who supported his view and there fans who have been in the attack should be able to state that they never sledge or tap heads after a mistake etc etc. Yet they can't cos like every team in the comp they do it all. This in my view makes Carters actions (79th minute) not excusable but worth a laugh due to the outcome of the game, but worth moving on from which is something people seem unprepared to do.

 

[waratahjesus]

Carter got what he deserved for carrying on like an arrogant twit when Shipperley raced away for the try...

Greg Martin and Drew Mitchell didn't need to chime in with these ridiculous articles...

I out it to you slim, that they are in fact nit ridiculus at all, but instead merely don't agree with your side of the argument.

 

[barbarian]

I dispute that. None of the Reds play the same niggle-based game to the extent that Carter did on Saturday. Certainly one or two of them have done it in the past, but that doesn't mean all of a sudden they can't criticise someone for taking it to a complete new level and having it backfire in embarassing circumstances.

Plus they (thinking guys like Higgers, Beau etc) aren't the ones being quoted here anyway.

 

[qwerty51]

This is all come about just because the Reds got out of jail which in fact had zero to with what Carter did. Would never have heard about it if the ball went out or Shipperley got tackled.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

I've watched Carter in Super rugby and Sydney first grade on telly for a few seasons now and this is just the latest in a long line of handbag incidents involving him. I don't hate him for it or anything like that, but as a spectator it's pretty tiresome and when it backfires on him I will admit to finding it hilarious.

In person he's probably a great bloke, but on the paddock he looks like that serial pest you had sitting behind you in primary school. When they got a smack down from a bigger kid you got great satisfaction from it.

 

[barbarian]

This is all come about just because the Reds got out of jail which in fact had zero to with what Carter did. Would never have heard about it if the ball went out or Shipperley got tackled.

But the ball didn't go out, did it. Carter celebrated early, rubbed it in Diggers face (which would be a bad look if the Tahs won) and then the Reds scored.

If things happened differently the story would be different. And if my aunty had balls she'd be my uncle.

 

[qwerty51]

But since the two incidents didn't impact each other why is it an issue? I think it's because of what happened people are taking issue with what Carter did and that's wrong.