The Springboks at the Rugby World Cup

[Blue]

It's not the age of the Bok team that is the issue, it's that they're dated. They play outdated rugby that worked well under previous law interpretations, they haven't been coached properly in years, haven't moved their game on in years.

I will of course eat these words when they steamroll us in the semis. But I owuld be concerned if I was a Bok fan.

All true. No progress since 2009 in any shape or form. But if we put the top 22 on the park, fit and determined we will be hard to beat no matter what.

But I think if you had to squeeze an honest answer from most fans they would have doubts about our chances.

Doesn't mean I won't be yelling like a lunatic from the cake tin stands this Sunday!

 

[Linus]

I don't think anybody doubts the Boks will be a tough match up, they have the ability. THe question is can they sustain it for what can amount to 5 matches against quality opposition. When you play that style of accumulating points in 3's you rely on the referee and interpretation of the ruck. The set piece hasn't been a strength that it was 4 years ago. NZ have shown that they can come back from 17 down. Would you expect the Boks to come back from any deficit greater than 3 penalties.

If they get in front the Boks will grind down just about anyone. But 5 matches, basically, in a row on the form they have shown will probably be few steps to far. Still I wouldn't want to play them in the Quarters.

 

[PaarlBok]

All true. No progress since 2009 in any shape or form.

The first thing Jake white did back in 2003 was to change our gameplan to our historical strength. Doc Craven use to call it "Soften it up with the forwards and then hit with the backs". Meaning no progress since 1949.

 

[Hawko]

The first thing Jake white did back in 2003 was to change our gameplan to our historical strength. Doc Craven use to call it "Soften it up with the forwards and then hit with the backs". Meaning no progress since 1949.

I dont recall seeing much of the bolded part anytime. Just finished watching a replay of the 1999 semi-final. Apart from Fleck the backs were just spectators watching the 10 kick the ball relentlessly. Saw what I thought were the beginnings of some back play after 2007 in Super rugby but it was clearly a false dawn. The SA selectors can put anyone at 11-15 but providing they can tackle and run fast they need no other skills.

 

[Braveheart81]

I dont recall seeing much of the bolded part anytime. Just finished watching a replay of the 1999 semi-final. Apart from Fleck the backs were just spectators watching the 10 kick the ball relentlessly. Saw what I thought were the beginnings of some back play after 2007 in Super rugby but it was clearly a false dawn. The SA selectors can put anyone at 11-15 but providing they can tackle and run fast they need no other skills.

Heh. I just watched that too. Loving Foxsports 3!

I assume by hit with the backs, he meant Jannie de Beer hitting the ball with his foot.

 

[tigerland12]

It annoys me the Saffa's don't use their backs. Fourie and de Villiers are two of the best centers in the world, and would be awesome to watch if they had someone like Carter or Cooper feeding them the ball. Same goes for Habana and Pietersen

 

[PaarlBok]

Heh. I just watched that too. Loving Foxsports 3!

I assume by hit with the backs, he meant Jannie de Beer hitting the ball with his foot.

Week later and Larkin did the same thing. Bliksem.

 

[Sully]

I am loving FS3! Others in the house aren't so excited.

 

[Blue]

Pieter de Villiers tried to get he Boks to run the ball but player power ruled and put an end to that. It lasted exactly one game.

It will be interesting to see if a new coach will use players like Lambie, de Jongh, Sadie and Aplon, who all have the makings of super stars. With Hougaard at 9 it would be bloody stupid to not run the thing.

 

[PaarlBok]

Pieter de Villiers tried to get he Boks to run the ball but player power ruled and put an end to that. It lasted exactly one game.

It will be interesting to see if a new coach will use players like Lambie, de Jongh, Sadie and Aplon, who all have the makings of super stars. With Hougaard at 9 it would be bloody stupid to not run the thing.

At this stage I think Alistair Coetzee and Rassie will take over. They will play the Stormers way my bet. Interesting to see the way the current WP team play in the CC. New backs, still the same Stormers way.

 

[Jnor]

Week later and Larkin did the same thing. Bliksem.

But Larkham and no-one else in the Aus team at that point had kicked a drop goal! And having just watched the 99 final again (thanks Fox 3) I thought both sides really played some rugby and the French really did turn up, they just lost it in the last 10-15.

The 99 semi is one of the most absorbing games I've ever seen.

 

[Blue]

At this stage I think Alistair Coetzee and Rassie will take over. They will play the Stormers way my bet. Interesting to see the way the current WP team play in the CC. New backs, still the same Stormers way.

If the Boks adopt the Stormers plan we are not going forward. There simply isn't enough points in the Stormers way of playing. Every year they look great but when it matters simply cannot score.

 

[qwerty51]

If the Boks adopt the Stormers plan we are not going forward. There simply isn't enough points in the Stormers way of playing. Every year they look great but when it matters simply cannot score.

I reckon there's one culprit there and it's JdV playing instead of de Jongh. In the comeback victory against the Blues in Auckland they needed to score 2 tries in the last 15 minutes. Who scored/set-up both? de Jongh.

 

[Blue]

I reckon there's one culprit there and it's JdV playing instead of de Jongh. In the comeback victory against the Blues in Auckland they needed to score 2 tries in the last 15 minutes. Who scored/set-up both? de Jongh.

Spot on.

De Villiers should be playing at 13 but isn't because Fourie is there. JdV never creates. Good at breaking the line but doesn't create outside him.

 

[Blue]

I dont recall seeing much of the bolded part anytime. Just finished watching a replay of the 1999 semi-final. Apart from Fleck the backs were just spectators watching the 10 kick the ball relentlessly. Saw what I thought were the beginnings of some back play after 2007 in Super rugby but it was clearly a false dawn. The SA selectors can put anyone at 11-15 but providing they can tackle and run fast they need no other skills.

I know it's fun bashing Bok rugby and all that but go watch the tests under Nick Mallet when he won the 3N.

Honnibal was first five and played flat to the line with runners straightening off him. It's the most consistent creative rugby we played since returning from isolation. Joost and Honnibal ran the ball at every opportunity they got. And very well to boot.

De Beer only played because Honnibal was injured and Mallet had to completely change the way the Boks played.

PS there are no SA selectors per se. They have absolutely no say whatsoever. They barely convene. The coach tells them who will play. That's been part of our problem We gave one fool carte blanche and his is influenced by a bunch of older players. Like at the Brumbies. Only done a lot more subtly.

Every time a young exciting player breaks in the old stand up for the virtues of the existing brotherhood and the youngster disappears. Bismarck, Aplon, Lambie, de Jongh, Hougaard plus three or four guys (Sadie, Pretorius) who by now would have had a chance in most other countries but under this "brothers first" regime have no chance in hell.

We are masters of self sabotage.

 

[PaarlBok]

I know it's fun bashing Bok rugby and all that but go watch the tests under Nick Mallet when he won the 3N.

Honnibal was first five and played flat to the line with runners straightening off him. It's the most consistent creative rugby we played since returning from isolation. Joost and Honnibal ran the ball at every opportunity they got. And very well to boot.
.

Ja Doost and Honiball had two great midfielders in Pieter Muller and Andre Snyman. Two of our biggest midfield ball crashes in Bok history. Unfortanetely you have to go back a few more years when we had real midfielders like Danie Gerber.

I surely dont blame Jean de Viliers for our up and under tactics in use, that will have to go to Morne Steyn and FdP. They are experts in that department. Regarding the Stormers tries against the Blues, credit have to go to Johann Sadie for that, watching the current WP CC team and last week when our backs run riot against Griquas he sure show his qualities in midfield and are one hell of a dangerous customer in distributing or line breaking. Just hope the Brutes dont make him a second Wynand Olivier. JdJ have a good step but he is not one thats big on off loading or distributing. Strong on defense.

 

[Athilnaur]

I don't know Blue, I wouldn't call it fun bashing Bok rugby. You win too much! Besides, given time the Bok are as capable as any of playing running rugby if that's what they want to do - and that is just with current player resources.

The RWC is another level up from test rugby, and it's brutally unforgiving. The Bok strategy has merit, but I hope for rugby's sake it's a misdirected one. We all want rugby to grow, and a few tries (not too many!) make the game exciting. Rugby's future growth is more dependant on the RWC than everything else put together.

I will say that if a more running game is rewarded this RWC, I predict fundamental changes to SA rugby. It could prove to be the wakening of a giant. I fear the SA culture is too conservative however, especially with political pressures.

 

[Blue]

Ja Doost and Honiball had two great midfielders in Pieter Muller and Andre Snyman. Two of our biggest midfield ball crashes in Bok history. Unfortanetely you have to go back a few more years when we had real midfielders like Danie Gerber.

I surely dont blame Jean de Viliers for our up and under tactics in use, that will have to go to Morne Steyn and FdP. They are experts in that department. Regarding the Stormers tries against the Blues, credit have to go to Johann Sadie for that, watching the current WP CC team and last week when our backs run riot against Griquas he sure show his qualities in midfield and are one hell of a dangerous customer in distributing or line breaking. Just hope the Brutes dont make him a second Wynand Olivier. JdJ have a good step but he is not one thats big on off loading or distributing. Strong on defense.

Which is why JdJ should prob play 13 and not 12.

JdV is not a second five type player. His passing game is very average. He does the basics extremely well but is not the kind of player who makes enough difference next to a very one dimensional flyhalf. I'm not bashing him Paarl. He has been the best we've had for a while.

I don't think Heineken Meyer is stupid enough to put 15kg on Sadie and tell him to bash it up. He will play 13 next to Olivier. Very good combination for Super Rugby in my opinion.

 

[MajorlyRagerly]

I don't know Blue, I wouldn't call it fun bashing Bok rugby. You win too much! Besides, given time the Bok are as capable as any of playing running rugby if that's what they want to do - and that is just with current player resources.

The RWC is another level up from test rugby, and it's brutally unforgiving. The Bok strategy has merit, but I hope for rugby's sake it's a misdirected one. We all want rugby to grow, and a few tries (not too many!) make the game exciting. Rugby's future growth is more dependant on the RWC than everything else put together.

I will say that if a more running game is rewarded this RWC, I predict fundamental changes to SA rugby. It could prove to be the wakening of a giant. I fear the SA culture is too conservative however, especially with political pressures.

Agree with a fair bit of your post but disagree with the bolded part.

RWC rugby if you ask me is a level down. Skills get reigned in, speed of the games are slower & teams play a much more limited gameplan than they are capable. Games are so defence orientated.

Recently, the boks haven't been able to keep up with the flashy shit, but as soon as the game is reigned in, they are masters. Same for England.

That's not to demean the Bok game at all, not at all. They are the absolute masters of the slow games & as a rugby purist, it's bloody brilliant to watch. But it's unlikely to attract new fans to the game.

The rugby at RWC isn't anything like the the showpiece to attract newer, younger, fans to the game anything like what S15 or 3N rugby is.

 

[PaarlBok]

Which is why JdJ should prob play 13 and not 12.

JdV is not a second five type player. His passing game is very average. He does the basics extremely well but is not the kind of player who makes enough difference next to a very one dimensional flyhalf. I'm not bashing him Paarl. He has been the best we've had for a while.

I don't think Heineken Meyer is stupid enough to put 15kg on Sadie and tell him to bash it up. He will play 13 next to Olivier. Very good combination for Super Rugby in my opinion.

He'll probably end up with a very few after Morne and Olivier have done their magic.