The Relationship Between the Schools, the Clubs, the Unions and the ARU

[Kenny Powers]

You also don't try to build a pyramid in reverse. Nobody here is rubbishing the private schools, just the obvious cloistering by the ARU and the utter lack of support for village/local/subby junior's programs.

Cloistering would imply their is some sort of funding forthcoming from the ARU for the private schools. When you pay your own way in life regardless of what it is you don't have to answer to anyone. An indisputable fact of life.

That's not to say the ARU should not flex it's muscle a little around representative selection to achieve more co-operation around availability and development squad participation from private schools. Your either in or your players aren't considered.

If a few schools are producing the majority of the elite players that's not their fault, but the ARU's failure. Whether they have the motivation to change is another thing, because as mention these players are costing them nothing to develop.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

If a few schools are producing the majority of the elite players that's not their fault, but the ARU's failure.

Spot on.
I wonder whether they dont see the issue or whether they figure it would cost so much to go out to western sydney (in particular) and compete with the ARL and AFL that the they could never get a return sufficient to justify the time, money and effort.
Maybe its about "the vision": how far ahead do we look in order to justify the effort. I say 10-15 years and it has to start now.

 

[Pfitzy]

Make NSW schools rugby an open competition, and you threaten to scare off a few public schools who play the game, as financially they can't compete with the top 4-5 GPS schools. The split would be roughly equal between loigue and AFL, with soccer growing alongside the success of WSW. All three of those sports have national bodies with cash and desperation.

Keep it closed, and you threaten to continue the inbred bollocks that has reduced our effectiveness in the professional era, and will continue to do so increasingly.

The first thing to do is merge the top tiers for regular competition, to allow the lesser lights to understand where they sit and how to improve. The second is to get regular country and city competition on a similar scale to league.

Country rugby is probably more under utilised than western Sydney. Good, tough, adaptable kids there, who don't come to board in Sydney, get ignored. A Maori guy that I played with in subbies was impressed with how hard the guys in the Country rep side were when he played against them.

Tyranny of distance and lack of money is an issue, but this is where country people stand up as a community - something we dare not lose because it has no equal in monetary terms. Loigue is finding this out now as their lower level comps like NSW Cup and Ron Massey Cup are flooded with unsustainable money.

 

[TOCC]

There is no such requirement - there is definitely encouragement.
I would say that its less demanding than the way the NFL teams draft out of college - some enormous percentage of draftees complete a bachelors degree - do they not?
Of course, if you believe one of the theories behind "Money Ball" (the book) watching a kid in college is a much better means of determining his fitness for pro sport than how he went in high school.

players are required to participate in professional development through a program/course approved by the RUPA appointed Career Training Scheme Advisor... In their first year they are required to study towards a Cert III in Sport modules, following that they are required to participate in a form of professional development(tertiary or vocational).

 

[Inside Shoulder]

players are required to participate in professional development through a program/course approved by the RUPA appointed Career Training Scheme Advisor. In their first year they are required to study towards a Cert III in Sport modules, following that they are required to participate in a form of professional development(tertiary or vocational).

Is this a term of their contract with the ARU/S15 franchise?
What is a Cert III in Sport modules?

 

[TOCC]

Yes, its part of the RUPA CBA

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Yes, its part of the RUPA CBA

It does not appear to be mandatory for a player to participate in it.

 

[TOCC]

It does not appear to be mandatory for a player to participate in it.

based on what?
Its part of the players CBA

 

[Inside Shoulder]

based on what?
Its part of the players CBA

Based on the words actually used in the CBA.
All those words seem to do is set up the Scheme and say who will administer it and how it will be administered: http://c1940652.r52.cf0.rackcdn.com/4f69616099c2ff5dfb000288/CBA Mk III.pdf

15.1 The existing Career Training Scheme shall be jointly managed by RUPA and the
ARU under the direction of a committee to be known as the Career Training
Committee (the Committee).
15.2 The Committee shall comprise of three (3) representatives of the Rugby Bodies,
three (3) representatives of RUPA, the National Player Development Manager,
and the Chairman. The Chairman shall be an individual appointed by agreement in
writing between the Rugby Bodies and RUPA and shall have a casting vote.
15.3 The Committee shall have, once approved by the Rugby Bodies, a charter (the
Charter) to govern its operations and to set guidelines for the distribution by the
Committee of financial assistance to Players and Academy Players to assist with
all problems commonly experienced by current and retiring professional Rugby
union players, including such matters as tertiary qualifications, vocational
education and assistance, a career placement program, Player welfare and
counselling, financial planning and management, and the level of such financial
assistance. The Charter shall bind the Committee although the Committee may,
subject to approval by the Rugby Bodies, revise this Charter from time to time.
15.4 The Committee shall have the authority to bind the ARU in relation to decisions it
makes pursuant to the Charter provided that in doing so the minimum amount of
financial assistance the ARU shall be required to contribute in respect of the
Career Training Scheme in 2005 is a total of $350,000. This amount shall be
increased in each year of the Term calculated on the basis of CPI or such other
amount as the Parties agree in writing.
15.5 RUPA and the ARU agree to participate further in discussions from 2006 in
relation to the minimum annual ARU contribution in respect of the Career
Training Scheme in view of the introduction of an Additional Australian Super
Tournament Team.
15.6 The Committee shall meet at least quarterly to consider policy and directions in
relation to the Charter and to consider matters including:
(a) which Player(s) or Academy Player(s) are to receive assistance and the
nature of such assistance;
(b) which consultants are to be retained to further the objects of the Charter;
and
(c) any reports prepared by consultants concerning assessments of Players or
Academy Players.
15.7 The ARU and RUPA shall jointly recruit a National Player Development Manager
for the sole purpose of administering the Career Training Scheme for and on
behalf of the Committee. The National Player Development Manager will be
nominally employed by RUPA for the purpose of employment related
entitlements. However the National Player Development Manager’s terms and
conditions of employment shall be agreed upon between RUPA and the ARU and
he/she shall report jointly to both the ARU and RUPA.
15.8 The Parties acknowledge and agree that a sum of money equal to one-half of the
costs attributable to the engagement of the National Player Development Manager
will be paid out of the total money set aside under clause 15.4. The other half will
be contributed by the ARU by way of additional funds.
15.9 In addition to the payments set out in clause 15.4 the Committee shall have the
authority to bind the ARU in relation to grants it makes to Players to assist with
the pursuit of tertiary education, vocational education, on the job training
programs, and retirement related issues provided that in so doing the maximum
amount of financial assistance the ARU shall be required to contribute for this
purpose in respect of 2005 grants is $280,000. Increases in each year of the Term
will be calculated on the basis of CPI or such other amounts as the Parties agree in
writing. For this purpose the Committee shall establish a Training and Education
Retirement Fund and devise criteria upon which Players and retiring Players may
become eligible to receive financial assistance.
15.10 The Parties acknowledge that the amounts specified in clauses 15.4 and 15.9 will,
subject to clause 15.5, be the total amount payable by the ARU. To remove any
doubt, the amounts specified in clauses 15.4 and 15.9 are inclusive of any taxes,
charges, fees, penalties or other amounts payable in relation to those amounts
including, without limitation, any fringe benefits tax payable by the ARU but will
not include GST.
15.11 Any funds received by the ARU from any government authority in relation to
Certificate III in Sport level (or such other equivalent level as may be established
by the Australian Qualifications Framework from time to time) training will be
reinvested into the Career Training Scheme.

 

[Man on the hill]

Is that USARugger I can hear snoring in the background? Can we bring it back to its original interesting topic, not some argument over commas by 2 lawyers?

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Is that USARugger I can hear snoring in the background? Can we bring it back to its original interesting topic, not some argument over commas by 2 lawyers?

USARuggerposed the original question/observation.

 

[Man on the hill]

USARuggerposed the original question/observation.

Yep he did - I just reckon that the branch out on the RUPA CBA is a distraction to the core thesis.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Yep he did - I just reckon that the branch out on the RUPA CBA is a distraction to the core thesis.

without it this thread died 4 days ago

 

[TOCC]

Based on the words actually used in the CBA.
All those words seem to do is set up the Scheme and say who will administer it and how it will be administered: http://c1940652.r52.cf0.rackcdn.com/4f69616099c2ff5dfb000288/CBA Mk III.pdf

if you keep reading.....

1. 11.1 A Player contracted under the terms of either a Rookie Contract or a Standard Player Contract for the first time will, in the first year of his employment, be required to study towards the completion of a qualification of a standard of at least Certificate III in Sport level (or such other equivalent level as may be established by the Australian Qualifications Framework from time to time).
2. 11.2 A Player contracted under the terms of the Standard Player Contract or the Rookie Contract for the first time who is studying for, or has obtained, a tertiary qualification from an accredited higher education institution or who is participating in some other appropriate form of professional development or education which is approved by the applicable Career Training Scheme advisor may study for completion of the qualification referred to in clause 11.1 of this Schedule but in any event, in the first year of their employment, is required to study towards the completion of four (4) of the Certificate III in Sport modules.
3. 11.3 A Player contracted under the terms of the Standard Player Contract, other than a Player undertaking professional development under clauses 11.1 or 11.2 of this Schedule will be required to participate in a form of professional development which is approved by the applicable Career Training Scheme advisor (whether or not that professional development is constituted by tertiary study).
4. 11.4 In respect of the training period for Players who are not members of the Wallabies, between June and October each year the State Unions will consult with the Career Training Scheme advisors and Players in respect of the scheduling of training commitments to accommodate professional development of Players.
5. 11.5 During the period referred to in clause 11.4 the State Unions must ensure that three (3) four (4) hour time periods between 8.00am and 6.00pm each week are available to enable Players to pursue professional development.
6. 11.6 If a Player does not comply with terms of this clause 11, the relevant Rugby Body may discipline the Player by placing restrictions on the Player’s future access to training and education funding.

 

[Man on the hill]

without it this thread died 4 days ago

YEP - so let it die

start a new thread

 

[I like to watch]

nothing worse than someone posting "this thread is dead,why do you bother etc etc"
don't like it?
move on to another thread and ignore this one.
Simple

 

[Inside Shoulder]

nothing worse than someone posting "this thread is dead,why do you bother etc etc"
don't like it?
move on to another thread and ignore this one.
Simple

if only that was what I wrote
You mean another one where TOCC makes an unsubstantiated erroneous assertion? No difficulty finding them.

 

[TOCC]

if only that was what I wrote
You mean another one where TOCC makes an unsubstantiated erroneous assertion? No difficulty finding them.

Try keep the conversations mature, i replied directly to your comment on the previous page that there was no requirement for players to partake in education...

There is no such requirement - there is definitely encouragement.

and, directly from the RUPA CBA:

-11.1 of this Schedule but in any event, in the first year of their employment, is required to study towards the completion of four (4) of the Certificate III in Sport modules.
-11.2 A Player contracted under the terms of the Standard Player Contract or the Rookie Contract for the first time who is studying for, or has obtained, a tertiary qualification from an accredited higher education institution or who is participating in some other appropriate form of professional development or education which is approved by the applicable Career Training Scheme advisor may study for completion of the qualification referred to in clause

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Try keep the conversations mature, i replied directly to your comment on the previous page that there was no requirement for players to partake in education.



and, directly from the RUPA CBA:

Thank you for pointing out where it is.
The sanction for not doing this, however, seems to be confined to restricting future access to training and education funding (Cl 11.6): i.e. breach would not entitle the employer to terminate the contract.
In my view that casts a serious doubt over whether the players are required to undertake such training since if they do not do so they cannot be sacked.

 

[I like to watch]

if only that was what I wrote
You mean another one where TOCC makes an unsubstantiated erroneous assertion? No difficulty finding them.

It was more directed at MOTH for some of his comments,snoring etc