The ranting at Deans/ARU/O'Neill/Players thread

[Riptide]

I love the way we shout get rid of the coach when the actuallity of it all is that no matter who is coach the result will be the same with this bunch of players. We are so far behinb the AB's in playing talent. The basic skills and abilities of this playing group is very low. They find it very hard to execute even the most basic game plan.

The Wallabies beat the ABs twice last year, and so I know that the Wallabies can beat the ABs if they get their selections right, and play with both intensity and confidence.

I am tired of indifferent, poor performances in which the Wallabies fail to perform at the level we know they are capable. They have no structures to fall back upon if things start going awry and I find the coaching staff accountable for this. The ABs put more pressure of the Wallabies than any other team because they are relentless in their execution of the basics at speed and then we flounder.

I have issues with selection and the Wallabies are clearly not playing with confidence or intensity at present. I'm putting much of the blame for that at the feet of the coaching staff.

 

[Mank]

I can accept being beaten by a better team. What I can't accept is:

• A complete lack of identifiable game plan beyond "pass it to Beale, JOC (James O'Connor), Cooper, whoever is his current wunderkind".

Would you be able to describe the All Black game plan?

 

[Iluvmyfooty]

The Wallabies beat the ABs twice last year, and so I know that the Wallabies can beat the ABs if they get their selections right, and play with both intensity and confidence.

I am tired of indifferent, poor performances in which the Wallabies fail to perform at the level we know they are capable. They have no structures to fall back upon if things start going awry and I find the coaching staff accountable for this. The ABs put more pressure of the Wallabies than any other team because they are relentless in their execution of the basics at speed and then we flounder.

I have issues with selection and the Wallabies are clearly not playing with confidence or intensity at present. I'm putting much of the blame for that at the feet of the coaching staff.

I agre that the coaching staff is a problem and it is now time for a change. However, the criticism of the efforts of the Wallabies should not just be confined to a call to sack the coach. The players cannot avoid the same type of criticism the coaches have got and should be accountable. I also believe that these players are the best we have and at the moment our best is well behind the AB's both individually and as a team

 

[No4918]

I agre that the coaching staff is a problem and it is now time for a change. However, the criticism of the efforts of the Wallabies should not just be confined to a call to sack the coach. The players cannot avoid the same type of criticism the coaches have got and should be accountable. I also believe that these players are the best we have and at the moment our best is well behind the AB's both individually and as a team

I agree that the squad with the likes of JOC (James O'Connor), Taps, Pyle and Holmes are probably our best players. The issue is why do they keep underwhelming at test level? A lot of players should be disappointed and be in line for criticism but they have probably played like a team once in the last test season. This is where the coaching staff are entirely at fault. Picking players out of position, out of form, and no fitness. Picking 4 out of 5 in the Tahs tight five does not automatically mean they will play cohesively. They barely played cohesively for there club and lost 5 of 8 derby games.

I don't know who is criticising the coaching staff but the fans. There is barely any talk in the rugby media of Deans and his failings. The guy has had new assistants every other year and performances are not improving. How he has survived at the expense of all others while being the only common factor seems to have escaped those at ARU HQ.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Here is a take on the whole concept of having a NZer running the show in Wobbilyland courtesy of Bardon.

While a Kiwi is in charge, we will continue to aspire to be Darkness-lite mimicking their style and at best only being on a par with them.

To be better than them, and to have them reacting to us and our tactics, and gameday strategies we need to have someone in charge of the National Squad that does not think that the pinnacle of test rugby is to our all black the all blacks.

It has to be one of our own in charge, but the problem is I do not think Link is ready for the job.

The questions remains “if this one is broken, where do we get a new one from?”

 

[Braveheart81]

The Wallabies beat the ABs twice last year, and so I know that the Wallabies can beat the ABs if they get their selections right, and play with both intensity and confidence.

Was the second victory over the All Blacks last year in a game of post match tiddlywinks?

 

[ChargerWA]

Would you be able to describe the All Black game plan?

• Rush up and put pressure on the defence.
• Kick the restarts to a contestable position and the contest them.
• Players get back and support the ball carrier in the kick chase.
• Structured backline moves when in the opposition 22.
• Compete at the breakdown where appropriate.

It's not rocket surgery. They do the simple things well, which could well be described as a "game plan". They have specific things they do differently when they play different opposition, but that is the icing on the cake. if you have a solid basic set of skills/attitudes you can adapt your game plan to each opposition.

With 4+ years with this group, Robbie has yet to be able to instill these basic core things consistantly in the playing group.

 

[Sully]

How is the national coaching set up responsible for basic skills. These players should be the complete package when they arrive. Blaming Deans and co for basic skills levels and fitness is bull.

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[Braveheart81]

Exactly.

There needs to be far more player responsibility when they play terribly.

Everyone seems perfectly happy to laud their favourite players when they play well, but when they play badly it is always Robbie Deans' fault.

Seemingly certain players are almost untouchable for criticism amongst most forum members. Everything can just be explained away as someone else's fault.

Of course for some players, other people's mistakes are actually somehow their responsibility.

 

[HG]

@ Sullly. All of the players have the basic skills. However in the case of the Tahs and some other selected players were and are hopelessly out of form.
We then compound the problem by selecting them into the Australian squad. We then play a large percentage of the players out of position from where they were playing during the super 15. The selection of Samo was a joke. The guy could hardly get a starting roll at the Reds during the season! Your right you can't blame Deans for the lack of skills or fitness but he did pick them believing that they do have the skill set and fitness to do the job. Most here I believe think that through poor selection and the lack of game vision by Deans is the issue and that he has had ample time to prove himself. In my judgement he has failed hopelessly and should be sent packing.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

How is the national coaching set up responsible for basic skills. These players should be the complete package when they arrive. Blaming Deans and co for basic skills levels and fitness is bull.

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If it isn't Dingo that sets the overal agenda for Coaching within Rugbydom, Coaching the Coaches, Coach Education, and Coaching Standards, then who is responsible for this?

Some say that this role is fulfiled by David Nucifora. Then if this is the case, there should be calls for his head as well, if the basic skills are not being taught to the players on the pathway from U6 to Wobs.

What inquiries will be held into the Coaching and player development Department of ARU? What are their KPI's?

Why is Nuci still there after the performance of the Under 20's in Safferland at the Junior RWC?

 

[HG]

@ Braveheart, What did you expect would happen last weekend? I for one was surprised that we were only beaten 8.
Yes the players selected need to take some of the responsibility, however so does Deans for selecting them! Players no matter how good they are will turn in a shocker every now and then. No point throwing the baby out with the bath water or criticizing a good player for having a shocker. IE Beale.

 

[Braveheart81]

@ Sullly. All of the players have the basic skills. However in the case of the Tahs and some other selected players were and are hopelessly out of form.
We then compound the problem by selecting them into the Australian squad. We then play a large percentage of the players out of position from where they were playing during the super 15. The selection of Samo was a joke. The guy could hardly get a starting roll at the Reds during the season! Your right you can't blame Deans for the lack of skills or fitness but he did pick them believing that they do have the skill set and fitness to do the job. Most here I believe think that through poor selection and the lack of game vision by Deans is the issue and that he has had ample time to prove himself. In my judgement he has failed hopelessly and should be sent packing.

Samo was actually good when he came on. He was one of the only forwards to get over the advantage line and provide some impetus.

Having an immediate stab at the Tahs players just screams of parochialism. I would argue that the three worst players on the field were Beale, Higginbotham and Robinson. Only one of which is a Waratah.

 

[Lee Enfield]

1. Deans is shit, but he isn't to blame for players being unable to catch a ball or make a simple tackle or simply execute the basics of Rugby.

2. Deans is responsible for the team selections and well, pretty much everyone on this forum could see the disaster that was to come, from the team he selected. He could see that a particular franchise had displayed poor execution, poor basics, poor fitness and poor play all year, yet still decided to pick nine of them anyway and put some of them in key positions.

3. I don't buy the excuse of we don't have the talent to match the All Blacks or the Kiwis. I personally think that Australia have the talent, but at national level we/Deans, don't seem to pick the best available players in their positions. The Reds have shown that Australia have the talent to take on the best of the Kiwis and match it with them and win. I know that SRU is different, but the National teams are all made up of the same players, so if we have players who can cut it against them at SRU level, they can bloody well cut it against them at national level.
The difference is, they have a coach who can cut it at International level, we simply don't.

4. Under Deans we have chosen the so called best players and then found a position to slot them into. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) may be a better player than Shipperley, but he isn't a better winger. We shouldn't have to swap half the backline around everytime a player gets injured. In the backs we have plenty of depth, we don't need to play people out of position. If Beale is our 15, then either make AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) our 13 or put him on the bench as utility back.

5. Deans should be sacked, he can avoid Waratah like play by rewarding players for having a good season. By picking players that make tackles, catch balls and do the basics well. He hasn't, so the blame lays with him and as such, Robbie, you are the weakest link, you're fired.

 

[HG]

Samo was actually good when he came on. He was one of the only forwards to get over the advantage line and provide some impetus.

Having an immediate stab at the Tahs players just screams of parochialism. I would argue that the three worst players on the field were Beale, Higginbotham and Robinson. Only one of which is a Waratah.

Must have been watching a different game. And regarding Samo imagine if we then had Schatz in the team as he has been holding Samo out of the Reds indirectly.
So you agreed with the team selections for Deans?

 

[HG]

Samo was actually good when he came on. He was one of the only forwards to get over the advantage line and provide some impetus.

Having an immediate stab at the Tahs players just screams of parochialism. I would argue that the three worst players on the field were Beale, Higginbotham and Robinson. Only one of which is a Waratah.

Must have been watching a different game. And regarding Samo imagine if we then had Schatz in the team as he has been holding Samo out of the Reds indirectly.
So you agreed with the team selections for Deans?

 

[Braveheart81]

Must have been watching a different game. And regarding Samo imagine if we then had Schatz in the team as he has been holding Samo out of the Reds indirectly.
So you agreed with the team selections for Deans?

Samo was injured for most of the year. His few cameos at the end of the season were quite good and he provided the Reds with some go forward when he came on in the game against the Sharks.

Deans said that Samo is really just a 20-30 minute bench option now but he is there because he is healthy again and got himself fit and as Deans says 'provides a point of difference'. He is big, fast and skilful and has attributes that other players don't.

In a game where none of our forwards really made an impression physically on the All Blacks, I think Schatz would have been just as ineffective as the rest of our backrow on Saturday night.

I didn't agree completely with Deans selections but I also don't think I would have made many changes. Of the players we had available there were not a huge number of options floating around. In all the many hundred of posts regarding the selections for the first test, even the most ardent Deans criticisers really only wanted a couple of minor changes to what Deans had picked.

I thought that with McCabe injured, it provided the opportunity to move Barnes to 12 and select Cooper at 10. That didn't happen but will hopefully happen this Saturday.

After the series against Wales, Barnes was always going to be starting. People make assumptions that some of the players may have lost faith in Deans. I guarantee that there would be no faster way for the players to lose faith in their coach if the coach drops a player who was man of the match in the last two tests the team played.

 

[HG]

Samo may have spent some time out injured but I watch him in the Brisbane Premier grade a few times and he was hopeless and looked like he didn't want to be there.
So if we had an injury in the first 5 minutes of the game you have a player on the side line that is only a 20 to 30 minute player!!!! Give me a break! Lets look at the Mitchell selection. He has had next to no football and what he had showed he was very much under done and out of form due to the long lay off through injury. ( I am a Drew Fan) So we pick a specialist winger? So if Barnes goes down in the game with another head knock we have massive positional changes to fix up the issue. If they had run with Mike Harris they could have covered 10, 12 and 15.
And you are OK with playing AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) on the wing?
Sack Deans now!!!

 

[Braveheart81]

Samo may have spent some time out injured but I watch him in the Brisbane Premier grade a few times and he was hopeless and looked like he didn't want to be there.
So if we had an injury in the first 5 minutes of the game you have a player on the side line that is only a 20 to 30 minute player!!!! Give me a break! Lets look at the Mitchell selection. He has had next to no football and what he had showed he was very much under done and out of form due to the long lay off through injury. ( I am a Drew Fan) So we pick a specialist winger? So if Barnes goes down in the game with another head knock we have massive positional changes to fix up the issue. If they had run with Mike Harris they could have covered 10, 12 and 15.
And you are OK with playing AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) on the wing?
Sack Deans now!!!

We had five forward reserves. If we needed a player for longer, Hooper would have come on. As it happened, Hooper didn't come on because there was uncertainty as to whether Pocock could finish the game. Samo was there for a specific purpose and was used for that purpose.

We only had two back reserves. Mitchell was there to cover 14/15. Beale was the backup 10 and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) for 12/13. If Harris had been the only back on the bench and wing or fullback got injured then we would had been forced to play someone on the wing completely out of position.

I have no problem with AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) on the wing. He didn't have a good game on Saturday but has played some of his best test rugby on the wing.

 

[vidiot]

How is the national coaching set up responsible for basic skills. These players should be the complete package when they arrive. Blaming Deans and co for basic skills levels and fitness is bull.

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I don't believe Beale dropped that pass from Genia (for example) because of his basic skills. I believe he dropped it because he wasn't focussed on catching it, because he is not as fit as he could be, unless you mean piss-fit, and because of the pressure of the situation and that the ABs put him under.

At this level Deans and his crew should be working on all three to get execution from them - inoculating them against pressure, getting them focussed on the simple things and either making sure their fit or picking someone else who is.

I'm not going to blame him for one-offs, and the ABs have a big hand in it. But when they come out and give a display like that first half, and allow the ABs to phone in a second half, no kudos from me to the coach.