The ranting at Deans/ARU/O'Neill/Players thread

[waratahjesus]

What a terrible article. Spiro makes Growden look like Shakespeare.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Deans has never been accepted as a legitimate Wallabies coach by an unholy alliance of recalcitrant former coaches, players, rugby power brokers and commentators who want to take over the ARU from the establishment.

Read more:http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/union-news/myopic-deans-bashers-reveal-the-ugly-head-of-xenophobia-20120831-255kc.html#ixzz25BfyiwNV

If there's one thing this site proves it is that the widespread view is that "the establishment" has done enough damage and they ought to move on.
Perhaps Spiro thinks we should go back to hereditary titles.
Also I thought the nickname was much like Ken Rosewall's, which was "muscles", because he didn't have any - just as Dingo couldn't be a Dingo 'cos he wasn't Australian.

He destroys his own argument that the lack of suppoort for Deans is Xenophobic with this:

The Birthers accept players from other countries playing for the Wallabies, even when they are made captain. They accept Super Rugby coaches such as Jake White, the South African in charge of the Brumbies. Why is Deans, as the Wallabies coach, singled out as an exception?

Is he so stupid he cant see the difference between Deans and White: one of them achieved results above what was expected but it seem he doesnt know which one that might be.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Spiro, if you're reading mate, give the game away. Please, for the sake of your sanity.

What utter rubbish.

 

[Mr Doug]

I've made comments previously as to Robbie's (peceived) difficulty coaching a team to play against AB players that are like sons to him, so I now pose these questions to those of you who have greater abilities than me to analyse Robbie's coaching methods/results:

1. Does he coach the players differently prior to an AB test?

2. Does he have a different "plan" (A,B, or C) for the ABs?

3. Does he prefer different player "combinations" for an AB test?

4. Or is it just that the ABs are far superior to the other teams we encounter?

 

[Dam0]

To be fair, I think Spiros point is not so much that Deans should be immune from criticism, but that the criticism that says he is failing because he is a kiwi is a bit silly. He makes the point, which I am inclined to agree with, that some of the criticism against Deans comes from a deep down belief that a Kiwi shouldn't be coaching the team.

If you read the article, that is his only point. In fact it is hard to see anything in the article that is particularly compelling or controversial.

 

[Lyall]

My understanding was that dingoes were an introduced species responsible for the extinction of a few animals, possibly even a wallaby or two!

Sound familiar?

 

[Schadenfreude]

Myopic Deans bashers reveal the ugly head of xenophobia

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/u...-xenophobia-20120831-255kc.html#ixzz25AE90ArP

Nothing like saying "you're all being racists" to shut down any form of discussion; rational or irrational (the other one is "now you're being un-Australian").

This sycophantic argument that the Blecks are too good is not an excuse. If that is the case why not just forfeit. The fact is the Blecks system is doing something awesome, it's no secret, they have been on top for ten years now as Sloe results go. Our system is not up to that standard, why not and how do we get there?

We need an answer, we can't sit around waiting for Sir Ritchie to retire.

I read that early this morning and it's taken me all day to realise the only reasonable response to that article is "Fuck off back to Greece Spiro!"

 

[Schadenfreude]

To be fair, I think Spiros point is not so much that Deans should be immune from criticism, but that the criticism that says he is failing because he is a kiwi is a bit silly. He makes the point, which I am inclined to agree with, that some of the criticism against Deans comes from a deep down belief that a Kiwi shouldn't be coaching the team.

If you read the article, that is his only point. In fact it is hard to see anything in the article that is particularly compelling or controversial.

To be fair to the Deans bashers, they've been calling him crap in many different ways for a long time, and it's only now someone finally got around to thinking "maybe it's because he's using a kiwi hammer on aussie nails" and all lof a sudden Deans is beyond reproach?

 

[Inside Shoulder]

I read that early this morning and it's taken me all day to realise the only reasonable response to that article is "Fuck off back to Greece Spiro!"

Spiro's a kiwi too isnt he?

 

[redstragic]

Yes the Blecks are awesome, but I can't get out of my head the 2005 English cricket team, they beat us by standing up to us, they decided they wanted to win more than we did and they figured out how to do it. They created a system that we could not match in that series and have had the wood on us most of the time since.

The Blecks can be beaten.

 

[Dam0]

To be fair to the Deans bashers, they've been calling him crap in many different ways for a long time, and it's only now someone finally got around to thinking "maybe it's because he's using a kiwi hammer on aussie nails" and all lof a sudden Deans is beyond reproach?

I appreciate that, but I think that Zavos is writing for a much wider audience than dedicated rugby fans like yourself and most at GaGR. He isn't addressing knowldegeable people who have question marks about Dean's ability to select, coach and motivate a team. He's addressing those that are are starting out with the opinion that Deans shouldn't be there because he's a kiwi, and using results to justify those conclusions.

 

[Gagger]

To be fair, I think Spiros point is not so much that Deans should be immune from criticism, but that the criticism that says he is failing because he is a kiwi is a bit silly. He makes the point, which I am inclined to agree with, that some of the criticism against Deans comes from a deep down belief that a Kiwi shouldn't be coaching the team.

If you read the article, that is his only point. In fact it is hard to see anything in the article that is particularly compelling or controversial.

There were a bunch of 'patriots' or 'nationalists' (depending on your view) who said from the get-go we should have an Aussie coach. Dingos shithouse results and team that are now patently flat haven't exactly refuted their arguments, even if they were wrong.

I do however think there's a problem with Deans being a kiwi - but it's got nothing to do with culture or country of birth.

It's got to do with the fact that he wasn't going to be able to bring the coaching team around him that he felt could do the best job, because no doubt the rest of it would've been from New Zealand as well, and that wouldn't have washed.

Instead, while the Kiwis have had International calibre coaches as assistants, we've had pretty much random appointments of aussie coach apprentices.

Of course, this isn't to say that Deans would ever had the mindset to do the above - I have no way of knowing either way. But a true international coach like White has made him look like the "backs whisperer" that I'm now suspecting he is

 

[Schadenfreude]

Spiro's a kiwi too isnt he?

I thought he was an Aussie.

 

[It is what it is]

Yes the Blecks are awesome, but I can't get out of my head the 2005 English cricket team, they beat us by standing up to us, they decided they wanted to win more than we did and they figured out how to do it. They created a system that we could not match in that series and have had the wood on us most of the time since.

The Blecks can be beaten.

Spot on Redstragic but if we want sustained success we need to introduce a cohesive system, as you mentioned the Pommy cricket team did.
Otherwise we'll be relying on our best day finding their worst day for a few infrequent wins.

 

[Lyall]

Yes the Blecks are awesome, but I can't get out of my head the 2005 English cricket team, they beat us by standing up to us, they decided they wanted to win more than we did and they figured out how to do it. They created a system that we could not match in that series and have had the wood on us most of the time since.

The Blecks can be beaten.

Weren't we complaining back then that half of their team were South African?.........!!!

 

[redstragic]

Weren't we complaining back then that half of their team were South African?...!!!

How many current wallabies were born here? It does not matter as long as they qualify.

 

[Scorz]

Man you guys over think the game sometimes. Big fast guy will generally beat smaller fast guy. Big fast guys with big arses and chests are good for hitting rucks and tall guys with long arms make good locks. Kill League and gAFL, you'll help yourselves no end. And the world, actually.

 

[ChargerWA]

If only Scorz, if only..........

 

[cyclopath]

Man you guys over think the game sometimes. Big fast guy will generally beat smaller fast guy. Big fast guys with big arses and chests are good for hitting rucks and tall guys with long arms make good locks. Kill League and gAFL, you'll help yourselves no end. And the world, actually.

Bit like asking league in NZ to kill rugby. Tell 'im he's dreamin'. AFL and loigue here are much bigger than rugby. Sad reality.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

I thought he was an Aussie.

I accept you cant trust everything you read on wikipeida:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiro_Zavos

Sometimes he uses it as a badge of honour and sometimes he fails to mention it because it doesn't suit his purposes: I used to like him but this article has sunk him for me - to suggest that dislike of a Deans is based on the fact that he is a kiwi is just ridiculous.

I, for one, thought that a NZ coach would great because we could learn something as a rugby nation.