The Pulverisation of Australian Rugby

[Brendan Hume]

Serendiptious is not the word I'd use.

All of Queensland Rugby's numbers - participation figures, Reds memberships, the bottom line - all of them have improved considerably under Carmichael.

From the grassroots to the marketing of the Reds (as well a the two NRC teams for that matter) they are blowing everyone else out of the water.

The success of the Reds played a large part in the improved bottom line (a couple of home finals will do that).

The success of the Reds and the changing nature of membership - where there are a numerous membership options, bundled membership with ticket options, counting people participating in participation programs as members, counting all junior club players as members - has increased the membership considerably. That's not to say that's a bad thing, but the goalposts have changed to favour the conclusion you've reached.

Similarly the method of collection of participation figures has changed considerably, which again means you're not comparing apples to apples.

Picking up a great coach with no history with Queensland and having some really talented players who played the most exciting rugby the competition has seen in 2011 saw much of that success - I'd call it serendipitous, lucky, whatever.

Because the Reds have success doesn't mean the QRU is successful.

I'm happy to say they've done a great job with their media and marketing, particularly in Brisbane. I'm not prepared to say they've done a great job with grassroots, because I've experienced it differently.

 

[TOCC]

Serendipitous is not a word I'd use either, Reds were a talented team but it took a complete overhaul of the coaching team to achieve the the championship team. When Rod McCall joined the Reds they still had Phil Mooney as coach and Ken Freer as CEO.. Within 6 months they had a new coaching structure, new recruitment staff, new CEO and new S&C staff.. Those weren't easy decisions, recruiting a CEO with zero rugby experience didn't go down well in the QLD rugby alumni network.

You can criticise membership figures and participation figures as dubious, but you can't ignore the fact the QRU has doubled revenue since 2009 and more importantly cleared outstanding debt.

2011 could be argued as serendipitous, but the continued on and off-field success of the Reds/QRU is more then luck..

That's not to say I disagree with your comment about grassroots, they might be shitty there, im no expert.

 

[Brendan Hume]

You can criticise membership figures and participation figures as dubious, but you can't ignore the fact the QRU has doubled revenue since 2009 and more importantly cleared outstanding debt.

2011 could be argued as serendipitous, but the continued on and off-field success of the Reds/QRU is more then luck..

That's not to say I disagree with your comment about grassroots, they might be shitty there, im no expert.

Yeah, that's all fair enough... I suppose I think that in the same way as one game does not a season make, four successful years on the paddock does not a sustainable State body make. We'll see over the next five to fifteen years whether the policies and structures put in place are sustainable when the Reds eventually go through a period of shit performances.

 

[Marcelo]

Some positive news? Whenever I read this thread makes me sad for the things I read. There are some light of hope somewhere?

 

[Brendan Hume]

Some positive news? Whenever I read this thread makes me sad for the things I read. There are some light of hope somewhere?

Hahaha maybe the thread title could give you a hint that there's not too much positive up for discussion.
In saying that, the Australian Super Rugby conference looks like it'll be a cracker next year - all squads look pretty strong, Force coming off a breakout season, Rebels signing some of their young blokes into the future, and the Reds, Tahs and Brumbies all seem to have a bit of depth. Hopefully most of the best stay injury free and are ready to roll into RWC2015


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[Marcelo]

Many years ago our enemies predict the death of Union in Australia but we are still alive.

Think positive. What is the best thing that can happen to Rugby Union in Australia?

I don't know if Wallabies win the WC 2015 or WC 2019. Then the ARU signs a contract with Nike, who decides to return to the Union and pick the opponent team to ABs because they are the visible face of his rival, Adidas.

Nike pays to the ARU 4 times more than Asics, which impacts positively on the economy. Also Reds wins the Super Rugby 2015 season and Brumbies wins the Super Rugby 2017 season. The new Super Rugby format, with the same conference between Aussies and Kiwis teams is a blockbuster in Australia increasing crowds in stadiums and TV audience.

Aussie Sevens win the gold medal at the Olympic Games in Rio de Janeiro, this generates more interest in Aussies, and many NRL & AFL players and League & Footy supporters want to migrate to the Union. Then cities like Darwin and Adelaide are interested in having their own Super Rugby franchises, while in Melbourne, Union is booming, rugby is the fastest growing sport and the Rebels are almost as popular as the Storm.

With higher income, the economy of the ARU is in good health, allowing greater investment in the NRC



Dreaming doesn't cost anything

 

[Hawko]

Someone earlier posted about the need to have a 7:15 game every Friday and Saturday for every week of the comp. The structure of the conferences we have agreed from 2016 means that this objective will likely not occur. It could almost have if we had insisted on three conferences of six teams with Japan in our conference and Argentina in NZ's but we got railroaded by NZ and SA.

Its only one decision in an absolute multitude, but I believe two games at 7:30 on the weekend would have been far more attractive to FTA (through 10) and could have resulted in a different negotiated outcome with Foxtel and a much wider audience.

You could write a 100,000 word thesis on what needs to be done to re-establish Rugby in Australia and barely scratch the surface. The three basic requirements are:

1. To develop and grow all grassroots rugby with the limited resources that are available, not allowing some to wither while encouraging others.
2. To regularly show off high quality rugby (including women's and sevens) to the non-believers so that they can see just how good the game is compared to the competition.
3. To ensure there are good pathways to the top for all Australians so that our top teams are the best we can attract from all of Australia, not just the private school systems.

The decision on the future of Super Rugby made it just that much harder to accomplish point two. So why did it happen? Because the ARU has not set those three fundamental aims in place and therefore does not filter all its decision making through the need to first achieve these three outcomes.

 

[qwerty51]

Not really relevant but for those that think rugby is struggling.. for all the talk about how good the A-League is going it's not really true.


Pretty poor ratings.

 

[Quick Hands]

Dreaming doesn't cost anything

I love your positivity, I hope most of that comes true.

 

[Quick Hands]

Not really relevant but for those that think rugby is struggling.. for all the talk about how good the A-League is going it's not really true.


Pretty poor ratings.

Rugby is only really struggling in Australia and perhaps the Pacific Islands. It's going gang-busters in the rest of the rugby playing world.

 

[qwerty51]

Don't need to tell me that

But mainly for those who think soccer has surpassed rugby here. I still think the Wallabies are a bigger brand than the Socceroos (ranked over 100 now aren't we?) and Super Rugby is more popular than the A-League.

 

[Marcelo]

Not really relevant but for those that think rugby is struggling.. for all the talk about how good the A-League is going it's not really true.


Pretty poor ratings.

Good news!

And what are the ratings that soccer supporters would have us believe they have?

 

[Quick Hands]

Don't need to tell me that

But mainly for those who think soccer has surpassed rugby here. I still think the Wallabies are a bigger brand than the Socceroos (ranked over 100 now aren't we?) and Super Rugby is more popular than the A-League.

Soccer is Australia has a propaganda machine that would do North Korea proud in addition to a publicly funded FTA television network which unashamedly promotes the game. As we all know, the only reason the A league is played in summer is that no-one would watch it in winter.

 

[Slim 293]

Those figures don't exactly represent how well the A League is rating on SBS............

http://theworldgame.sbs.com.au/article/2014/10/11/league-ratings-hit-sbs

http://www.footballaustralia.com.au...ht-hyundai-a-league/x64jbeanecy317xdzcyts8exx

http://www.foxsports.com.au/footbal...er-on-fox-sports/story-e6frf4gl-1226906007616

The A League is on free to air, gets more metro TV news coverage, and they have more teams gettig higher average crowd attendances (not as high as the Reds though).................

 

[Brendan Hume]

Without wanting to rain on the parade of festive positivity, it's a bit unreasonable to pick a week of ratings for the A-League and hold them up to suggest they're not doing so well.
Soccer is doing well enough given where they started, and they're definitely doing a lot better than Rugby.
They have the Asian Cup coming up this month. The A-League gets more coverage, and more money for TV rights than Super Rugby in Australia, and their national body isn't going broke.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Without wanting to rain on the parade of festive positivity, it's a bit unreasonable to pick a week of ratings for the A-League and hold them up to suggest they're not doing so well.
Soccer is doing well enough given where they started, and they're definitely doing a lot better than Rugby.
They have the Asian Cup coming up this month. The A-League gets more coverage, and more money for TV rights than Super Rugby in Australia, and their national body isn't going broke.

Well actually a week to week comparison was done during the past Super Rugby season and it beat the A League every week with the exception of the A League finals.

 

[Marcelo]

Don't need to tell me that

But mainly for those who think soccer has surpassed rugby here. I still think the Wallabies are a bigger brand than the Socceroos (ranked over 100 now aren't we?) and Super Rugby is more popular than the A-League.

I hate the fucking Socceroos but I'm really surprised by the growth they have had:

Socceroos 447,797 likes

Wallabies 446,985 likes

 

[Brendan Hume]

Well actually a week to week comparison was done during the past Super Rugby season and it beat the A League every week with the exception of the A League finals.

The fact remains these blokes screwed $40M a year out of their broadcast rights. SuperRugby has been stuck domestically at around $25M a year, excluding the revenue expected from the UK rights.


According to this, rugby doesn't even appear in the top 25 FTA sports events for 2014. If we think comparing ourselves to soccer to feel good is the path to success, we're deluded.

 

[wamberal]

Meanwhile, in the US of A, the goalkeeper of the national soccer team has become a huge cult figure. Apparently.

 

[Quick Hands]

Meanwhile, in the US of A, the goalkeeper of the national soccer team has become a huge cult figure. Apparently.

Both soccer and rugby have a big opportunity in the US. They'll probably never supplant NFL as the main code, but I was at a function earlier in the year and the player profile in NFL is something like 85% African American. This leaves a rather large demographic to be exploited, rugby satifies the American love of a contact type football code without the collisions.