The Israel Folau saga

[Derpus]

This is what I'm curious about. Even if they have multiple things in his contract about social media posts, rights of termination etc. it doesn't mean they are watertight.

If his contract gets terminated you can just about guarantee he will sue RA and the Waratahs for unfair dismissal and in my non-lawyer view would have a fairly solid case that the action taken to dismiss him was disproportionate to his behaviour.

The most frustrating thing about all this is the difficult position this puts RA in. They lose whatever they do here.

They can win. I would get senior legal advice about their rights based on their contractual situation, make it public and pursue the maximum punishment available to them based on said advice.

A good silks advice would probably only cost 10-20k. Easily worth it to save face.

Edit: Although they'll almost certainly have some top tier firm charging them 100k for some overworked junior to draft some shitty observations.

 

[wamberal]

Sponsors should, and no doubt will, make a considered judgement based on their own best interests.


Izzy is our only superstar. Without him the "product" that is being sponsored will underperform.


What he is doing is distasteful, but not illegal. (BTW, what the "Crusaders" were doing for the whole of their history in Super Rugby was equally distasteful to Muslims. No sponsors were upset about that, AFAIK).

 

[Braveheart81]

They can win. I would get senior legal advice about their rights based on their contractual situation, make it public and pursue the maximum punishment available to them based on said advice.

A good silks advice would probably only cost 10-20k. Easily worth it to save face.

Edit: Although they'll almost certainly have some top tier firm charging them 100k for some overworked junior to draft some shitty observations.

They still lose here. They are going to lose face with some fans for not firing him regardless of consequences. They lose a valuable player if they fire him or suspend him. They get blowback from sponsors regardless.

I agree with your premise that this might be the best option for the them to follow but they still lose.

 

[Derpus]

Fair enough. They can't exactly go back in time and tape his fingers to his arse before he got a hold of his phone. But they do have control over how they react and they can definitely come out looking good (or bad).

The first indiscretion it was a tough issue to balance. Izzy being a religious nutter is fine, but perhaps as a sports star and face of the game he should keep it to himself.

But now he's breaching clear directions and probably his contract. You don't even need to analyse the content of his statements to determine he's committing what would in any other circumstance be a sackable offence.

 

[barbarian]

I don't think they will tear up his contract. He will probably cop a ban though.

I'd be interested to see the reaction of the other Christian players to whatever happens. It seems many subscribe to his beliefs, especially the Islander players. Would they see any action as Israel being 'persecuted for his beliefs'?

Israel just seems like a bit of a simpleton, who has surrounded himself with a few 'fire and brimstone' preachers. It's not a great combination.
.

 

[Dctarget]

(BTW, what the "Crusaders" were doing for the whole of their history in Super Rugby was equally distasteful to Muslims. No sponsors were upset about that, AFAIK).

Long bow to draw there. Sure, distasteful? But not equally. They weren't routinely telling muslims they were going to hell. Instead, they had a brand tied to a very archaic concept that if you thought hard about it, is not very appropriate. They certainly didn't promulgate smashing oppositions just like the crusades pillaged muslim countries 700 years ago.

EDIT: didn't mean to divert conversation.

 

[Dctarget]

Israel just seems like a bit of a simpleton, who has surrounded himself with a few 'fire and brimstone' preachers. It's not a great combination.
.

Yeah you get the feeling that he knows what he is posting will really piss off RA, but whoever his close and influential religious mentors have been pressuring him to post it.


"you have such a wide reach, it would be want God wants you to do"
"But Raelene is scary and will yell at me"
"It's your duty to spread the word of the lord"
etc etc

 

[PhilClinton]

I think RA, and really all sporting codes should be looking at getting their players to create specific fan based public social media profiles. An incident like this wouldn't have occurred 10-15 years ago because the player in question didn't have access to a platform where 300k other people view their content.

And to anyone arguing that it's his 'personal account'... well it's been validated with a blue tick which in basic terms verifies that this person has some sort of public status and this is their real account.

It's not uncommon in other areas such as teaching for last names to be changed or removed from social media accounts so that students can't find them. A similar tactic should be employed by sporting personnel, have a blue ticked public account and then a personal hard to find private account where they can share what they like. Obviously there are still risks involved and things get out, but at least it would mitigate a large scale issue such as this.

 

[Strewthcobber]

I'd be much more convinced it was his personal account if he wasn't all over it wearing his employers jerseys.

He's off contract this year right? Would they have to pay out a contract for the next period that hasn't even started yet?

 

[I like to watch]

This is what I'm curious about. Even if they have multiple things in his contract about social media posts, rights of termination etc. it doesn't mean they are watertight.

If his contract gets terminated you can just about guarantee he will sue RA and the Waratahs for unfair dismissal and in my non-lawyer view would have a fairly solid case that the action taken to dismiss him was disproportionate to his behaviour.

The most frustrating thing about all this is the difficult position this puts RA in. They lose whatever they do here.

I don’t think that’s right.

In round 1, sponsors made it clear that they were considering cancelling contracts of considerable value.

There had to be communication between RA & Izzie,where the commercial ramifications of his personal views were explained.
In that communication they undoubtedly would have spelled out the consequences of any further breaches.

If he subsequently chose to ignore these warnings, I’m certain even a RA contract would allow them to terminate without payment.

 

[Derpus]

I don't think they will tear up his contract. He will probably cop a ban though.

I'd be interested to see the reaction of the other Christian players to whatever happens. It seems many subscribe to his beliefs, especially the Islander players. Would they see any action as Israel being 'persecuted for his beliefs'?

Israel just seems like a bit of a simpleton, who has surrounded himself with a few 'fire and brimstone' preachers. It's not a great combination.
.

Be mighty tempting to, though. Particularly if sponsors weigh in.

Sponsors > disruptive player, particularly for a cash strapped union.

 

[Ignoto]

I'd be interested to see the reaction of the other Christian players to whatever happens. It seems many subscribe to his beliefs, especially the Islander players. Would they see any action as Israel being 'persecuted for his beliefs'?

Those in doubt should consult God's mouth piece in the pope;

God made you like this and loves you like this and I don’t care. The pope loves you like this. You have to be happy with who you are,

Then several years ago we had the same pope pushing for inclusiveness

The 256-page document — known as an apostolic exhortation and titled “Amoris Laetitia,” Latin for “The Joy of Love” — calls for priests to welcome single parents, gay people and unmarried straight couples who are living together.

So, if any Christian still feels the need to call out the homosexuals etc then they need to revisit what is and isn't acceptable in the bible these days.

 

[USARugger]

Those in doubt should consult God's mouth piece in the pope;


Then several years ago we had the same pope pushing for inclusiveness


So, if any Christian still feels the need to call out the homosexuals etc then they need to revisit what is and isn't acceptable in the bible these days.

The Pope is for Catholics

 

[fatprop]

Those in doubt should consult God's mouth piece in the pope;


Then several years ago we had the same pope pushing for inclusiveness


So, if any Christian still feels the need to call out the homosexuals etc then they need to revisit what is and isn't acceptable in the bible these days.

Pretty sure he ain't his mouth piece, he probably thinks catlics are going to hell too

 

[Adam84]

It is part of the beliefs of a goodly chunk of Christian, Jewish and Muslim believers - all of which I think are pretty crazy, but they can say whatever they like.

It is nothing that isn't preached every day in the Sydney CBD by various loons trying to "save" me

Can say what they like, doesn’t mean it won’t have consequences..

Those loons in the CBD aren’t brand ambassadors or getting paid to represent companies.

 

[Strewthcobber]

Jeese Ignoto, have a wiki of the reformation haha

 

[wamberal]

Like the majority of Australians, my wife and I voted for marriage equality. That should really be the end of the line for bigotry. Izzy is not an ordained person, or a theologian. The only people who should be offended by what he says are members of his own little sect. And they won't be, because they all believe the same nonsense.


This sort of childish shite should be ignored. Totally.

 

[wamberal]

Jesse Ignoto, have a wiki of the reformation haha

The reformation, the counter-reformation, why stop there, there are many examples of violence and bloodshed, all in the name (allegedly) of Jesus, who preached tolerance and love for all.

 

[fairplay]

He is probably wants to move to the US and have a shot at the NFL

 

[liquor box]

Is he allowed to say he is Christian? Is he, or any other player allowed to draw a crucifix (possibly a lower case "t"" on their wrist strapping?

I think everyone, even non-believers is aware of what Christianity is based on. Those who sin must seek repent to get into heaven. If you dont repent you go to hell. Pretty simple philosophy.

What is considered a sin is pretty well known to most people.

Therefore any proclamation or symbol that shows rugby fans that a player is a Christian should also be frowned upon.