The Israel Folau saga

[KOB1987]

Did you hear him on rugby ruckus this week?

Talked about this very thing!
Basically it is not RA's role to fund him. Have a listen

I did listen yes. That's what prompted me to say it. No it's not RA's role to fund him but the point I was making was that we don't need the RA coffers to create a role like that and get a good person for it.

 

[KOB1987]

Anyway, gone topic there..but I suspect my level of off-topin-ness on this thread will have faded into obscurity within about 24 hours!

 

[Athilnaur]

^ it's first & foremost a test of employment law, I seriously doubt any judge is going to go near any of the other things you mention unless it somehow fails that initial test.

Question for the lawyers: can he actually proceed directly to "Supreme Court" action without first exhausting his other options, beginning of course with his right of appeal to a second CofC hearing?

Employment law in Australia has greater protections against discrimination than general law.

1. Courts have and use the right to throw out any contract clauses that are oppressive
2. Less so than America, employers do not rule carte blanche over employees in employment contract law - but there are important protections for them
3. It is clear from media that RA did not have a clause relating to use of social media or expression of religious beliefs, much less one signed by Israel, it must rely on its code of conduct and subservient regulations
4. Freedom of speech and the right to express your religious beliefs on media means the right to share your views openly. These are enshrined in UN charters Australia signed up to in 1976
5. the issue is VERY much a legal one - Balancing the rights of employers, homosexuals and religious belief - making it a test case.
6. None of this will be cheap for RA, who could have avoided the whole ugly mess by taking a similar line to the ABC when Yasmine Magied posted her controversial ANZAC day posts and stepping back from religious posts made outside of rugby properties, message boards or subject matter.

To your Q - ironically it matters not a whit whether he can bypass the appeal as it is not in RA's interests to go through another futile process that will just result in court anyway as it seems completely implausible that the review process would see Israel reinstated.

 

[Derpus]

Employment law in Australia has greater protections against discrimination than general law.

1. Courts have and use the right to throw out any contract clauses that are oppressive
2. Less so than America, employers do not rule carte blanche over employees in employment contract law - but there are important protections for them
3. It is clear from media that RA did not have a clause relating to use of social media or expression of religious beliefs, much less one signed by Israel, it must rely on its code of conduct and subservient regulations
4. Freedom of speech and the right to express your religious beliefs on media means the right to share your views openly. These are enshrined in UN charters Australia signed up to in 1976
5. the issue is VERY much a legal one - Balancing the rights of employers, homosexuals and religious belief - making it a test case.
6. None of this will be cheap for RA, who could have avoided the whole ugly mess by taking a similar line to the ABC when Yasmine Magied posted her controversial ANZAC day posts and stepping back from religious posts made outside of rugby properties, message boards or subject matter.

To your Q - ironically it matters not a whit whether he can bypass the appeal as it is not in RA's interests to go through another futile process that will just result in court anyway as it seems completely implausible that the review process would see Israel reinstated.

Nothing that has happened has indicated that Israel Folau was not free to express his views, last i saw he hasn't been imprisoned.

A lot of nonsense going on.

I think a lot of Christians are getting excited for nothing.

 

[Strewthcobber]

The obvious difference here being

The part-time Australia Wide presenter later replaced the post with one reading simply "Lest we forget", commenting that: "It was brought to my attention that my last post was disrespectful, and for that, I apologise unreservedly".

 

[Samson]

Perhaps the court will take into account the failure of our education system to equip our journalists with basic comprehension skills. You know the ability to read a post in it's entirety and report accordingly...why omit the bits about repentance and God loves you when it is more profitable to promote hate and sell papers. You have to love some Uni's admitting TER's of 40 to teaching and Communication degrees.

 

[Athilnaur]

Nothing that has happened has indicated that Israel Folau was not free to express his views, last i saw he hasn't been imprisoned.

A lot of nonsense going on.

I think a lot of Christians are getting excited for nothing.

He lost his job Derpus.

And it isn't just Christians who are concerned, I should know, I am not a practising christian and I firmly believe in homosexual rights. You are being dismissive of people who have a different view to you - dissmissive by claiming it to be nonsense.

There are multiple legitimate views to this issue . Thats why it is an issue.

 

[Derpus]

He lost his job Derpus.

And it isn't just Christians who are concerned, I should know, I am not a practising christian and I firmly believe in homosexual rights. You are being dismissive of people who have a different view to you - dissmissive by claiming it to be nonsense.


There are multiple legitimate views to this issue . Thats why it is an issue.

Yeah he lost his job because he did a thing that he contractually agreed not to do. Not because hes a christian. It really is that simple.

The UN doesnt guarantee you employment as a highly paid professional athlete, that comes with conditions.

 

[Athilnaur]

Yeah he lost his job because he did a thing that he contractually agreed not to do. Not because hes a christian. It really is that simple.

The UN doesnt guarantee you employment as a highly paid professional athlete, that comes with conditions.

Not according to one of the best captains we ever had he didn't.

 

[Kenny Powers]

If you check out David Pococks Instagram account he is expressing an opinion that we should vote for climate change action tomorrow and Bob Hawke was Australia's greatest ever Prime Minister.

Glad to see David Pocock feels free to express his opinion and whilst I don't agree with him on everything I admire his conviction and his contribution to the debate, because if everyone is thinking the same he no one is thinking!

Lets hope Adani don't become the major sponsor of Australian Rugby, or we could be doing this all again!

 

[KOB1987]

He lost his job Derpus.

And it isn't just Christians who are concerned, I should know, I am not a practising christian and I firmly believe in homosexual rights. You are being dismissive of people who have a different view to you - dissmissive by claiming it to be nonsense.

There are multiple legitimate views to this issue . Thats why it is an issue.

Post of the thread

 

[Pfitzy]

Post of the thread

 

[Pfitzy]

Yeah he lost his job because he did a thing that he contractually agreed not to do. Not because hes a christian. It really is that simple.

The UN doesnt guarantee you employment as a highly paid professional athlete, that comes with conditions.

Can I just say, not only am I loving your work in this thread, you're reading my fucking mind and being extremely polite and succinct while doing so.

Further: Odds are fair to short that, had I jumped back on here at 3:08PM today, this thread would once again be locked.

 

[Slim 293]

If you check out David Pococks Instagram account he is expressing an opinion that we should vote for climate change action tomorrow and Bob Hawke was Australia's greatest ever Prime Minister.

Glad to see David Pocock feels free to express his opinion and whilst I don't agree with him on everything I admire his conviction and his contribution to the debate, because if everyone is thinking the same he no one is thinking!

Lets hope Adani don't become the major sponsor of Australian Rugby, or we could be doing this all again!

False equivalence x1000.........

 

[Pfitzy]

Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.

Hmmmm.....

 

[Samson]

My original interest in the Folau Saga was the unjust nature of the reporting. Now it is the financial survival of Pro rugby. If this matter now proceeds through the courts and costs maybe millions of dollars in fees then RA is stretched maybe to breaking point. Is the admin at RA so inept that they bring this on without assessing down side. Folau will be funded by freedom rights activists, RA will be on it's own. Since I was 10 I have spent 58 yrs as a player, coach, ref, supporter and now thanks to incompetent admin The game I have loved most of my life is threatened. Not a happy camper.

 

[mst]

Employment law in Australia has greater protections against discrimination than general law.

Freedom of speech and the right to express your religious beliefs on media means the right to share your views openly. These are enshrined in UN charters Australia signed up to in 1976

There is no Commonwealth legislation enshrining a general right to freedom of expression.

Article 20 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR) contains mandatory limitations on freedom of expression, and requires countries, subject to reservation/declaration, to outlaw vilification of persons on national, racial or religious grounds. Australia has made a declaration in relation to article 20 to the effect that existing Commonwealth and state legislation is regarded as adequate, and that the right is reserved not to introduce any further legislation on these matters.

The Criminal Code contains offences relating to the use of a telecommunications carriage service in a way which is intentionally menacing, harassing or offensive, and using a carriage service to communicate content which is menacing, harassing or offensive.

The Racial Discrimination Act 1975 makes it unlawful to do an act reasonably likely to offend, insult, humiliate or intimidate another person or group if the act is done because of the race, colour or national or ethnic origin of the person or group.

International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights

Article 19

- Everyone shall have the right to hold opinions without interference.

- Everyone shall have the right to freedom of expression; this right shall include freedom to seek, receive and impart information and ideas of all kinds, regardless of frontiers, either orally, in writing or in print, in the form of art, or through any other media of his choice.

- The exercise of the rights provided for in paragraph 2 of this article carries with it special duties and responsibilities. It may therefore be subject to certain restrictions, but these shall only be such as are provided by law and are necessary:
- For respect of the rights or reputations of others;
- For the protection of national security or of public order (ordre public), or of public health or morals.

Article 20

- Any propaganda for war shall be prohibited by law.
- Any advocacy of national, racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence shall be prohibited by law.

 

[Strewthcobber]

My original interest in the Folau Saga was the unjust nature of the reporting. Now it is the financial survival of Pro rugby. If this matter now proceeds through the courts and costs maybe millions of dollars in fees then RA is stretched maybe to breaking point. Is the admin at RA so inept that they bring this on without assessing down side. Folau will be funded by freedom rights activists, RA will be on it's own. Since I was 10 I have spent 58 yrs as a player, coach, ref, supporter and now thanks to incompetent admin The game I have loved most of my life is threatened. Not a happy camper.

They go just as broke but quicker if they lose their sponsors. That's the more immediate downside

 

[Quick Hands]

What. Shes right. Hes jeopardising the game we all love for personal reasons. Its extraordinarily selfish.

No, it's now a legal battle. It's professional sport and it's a business and as many of you are fond of saying, it's all about employment law and contracts. He's entitled to pursue his legal rights in exactly the same way that RA are.

 

[Derpus]

My original interest in the Folau Saga was the unjust nature of the reporting. Now it is the financial survival of Pro rugby. If this matter now proceeds through the courts and costs maybe millions of dollars in fees then RA is stretched maybe to breaking point. Is the admin at RA so inept that they bring this on without assessing down side. Folau will be funded by freedom rights activists, RA will be on it's own. Since I was 10 I have spent 58 yrs as a player, coach, ref, supporter and now thanks to incompetent admin The game I have loved most of my life is threatened. Not a happy camper.

I think they will, but i don't get why a cash strapped organization would insist on using the big firms. They cost way too much and don't offer a service any better than a specialized boutique firm. Plus, you just know the majority of the work is done by some overworked junior.

Anyway, shouldn't cost millions and when RA win they'll get a costs order so should recoup at least some of their costs.