The Israel Folau saga

[sidelineview]

But he's not being persecuted or punished for his Christian beliefs... can we just stop propagating this downright falsehood?

His 'sin' was to air his beliefs on social media.
That's what I thought Formerflanker meant, but I'll let him clarify that.

 

[kiap]

If a tree falls in the forest
And it doesn't get on instagram
Is anybody fired?

 

[The Honey Badger]

I seriously doubt that Israel created the offensive graphic. I am guessing that graphic has been travelling around the Internet between Christians for some time.

And I am guessing that it came to Izzy and he reposted it with a paragraph of his own interpretation.

Quite possibly his church coerced him to post it.

But it only becomes controversial and offensive when it is posted on Izzy's page which has some 300k followers. It seems Izzy's profile is more the reason he is being punished.

Are RA going to trawl through every contracted players social media looking for offensive posts?

 

[I like to watch]

I seriously doubt that Israel created the offensive graphic. I am guessing that graphic has been travelling around the Internet between Christians for some time.

And I am guessing that it came to Izzy and he reposted it with a paragraph of his own interpretation.

Quite possibly his church coerced him to post it.

But it only becomes controversial and offensive when it is posted on Izzy's page which has some 300k followers. It seems Izzy's profile is more the reason he is being punished.

Are RA going to trawl through every contracted players social media looking for offensive posts?

Izzie is not a victim here.
He posted something that is offensive to some.
He has been explicitly warned about posting these types of things previously, after he put some of his employers commercial agreements at risk.
By all means,argue that the mooted punishment does not fit the crime.
But his actions deserve sanctions of some description.

 

[John S]

https://www.rugby.com.au/news/2019/...5NVLFqrLPNuV7rfAieACtn9VxezRZFOk2Ozrce0wA6j9k

Johnson has come out to say his piece. While not directly critical of Israel Folau, his point comes across quite clear.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

How does the tribunal reach its decision? Is it enough for two to find the same way, or do all three have to concur?

 

[Braveheart81]

How does the tribunal reach its decision? Is it enough for two to find the same way, or do all three have to concur?

2-1 majority is enough to determine the outcome.

 

[The Honey Badger]

By all means,argue that the mooted punishment does not fit the crime.
But his actions deserve sanctions of some description.

Agree with that.

What he did was stupid.

The punishment to scrub him from the game for life is completely over the top.

Good on K Hunt coming out in the media and not condemning him like the procession of others.

And M Court, to a lesser extent.

 

[Gnostic]

Yeah, the question "what value does a HR department provide?" is always an interesting one. When they started bracket creeping into nebulous shit "culture policies" ......

They provide employment opportunities for otherwise unemployable Humanities graduates.

 

[Athilnaur]

But he's not being persecuted or punished for his Christian beliefs... can we just stop propagating this downright falsehood?

Of course he is. He believes gays, adulterers, etc etc are going to hell. It's a belief many Australians disagree with and understandably object to.

He shared his belief on social media, and RA decided to cancel his contract because they consider the controversy reflects on Rugby.

The man is a professional rugby player and RA has tried to fire him.

Are you proposing that RAs marketing dept took a violent exception to his use of non green and gold colours on social media?

 

[formerflanker]

But he's not being persecuted or punished for his Christian beliefs... can we just stop propagating this downright falsehood?

Israel quoted the bible to explain his viewpoint.
Whilst RA doesn't say outright "we will tear up his contract because of his Christian beliefs", they are punishing him for expressing his Christian beliefs.
They dress up their rationale with phrases like "disrespectful to people because of their sexuality" but in the final analysis he is simply expressing his Christian faith. Folau's offer to homosexuals to repent from their sins is now verboten by RA.

 

[wamberal]

There is no "rationale". There is the simple reality that whether you like it or not, a lot of people, including a lot of mainstream Christians, would have been appalled at his fundamentalist bile.


He is not an ordained person, as far as I know. He is, or was, employed as a rugby player. Rugby players at the elite level are in a very privileged situation.

Could you imagine an All Black getting away with this? These guys understand their place in society. It is not to get up on a soap box and spray us with their uninformed and uneducated opinions.


If Izzy decides to preach in public, he needs to get some theological qualifications, and take up holy orders.

 

[Aurelius]

But he's not being persecuted or punished for his Christian beliefs... can we just stop propagating this downright falsehood?

Of course RA aren't going to come out and say that, but the persecution is evident when you see the double standards at play. When you've had cases of players doing drugs, getting involved in fights on tour, undermining coaches, getting drunk publicly and so on, and they're all offered a chance at rehabilitation, you have to wonder what's so terrible about Folau's post that not only has his firing been announced, but he's been publicly disowned by his coach and teammates, humiliated by the chairman of the NRL telling the world that there's no room for Folau in his code and everyone who's so much as liked his post on Instagram has been warned by their own employers.

That's why this is so much more than just an employment issue. If RA just wanted to discipline him, then dropping him for a fortnight would have done just fine. Or a month, if they took it that seriously. Instead, what they're doing is trying to destroy him professionally. Why would they do this? The only reason that makes any sense is that it's his attitude they want to punish, not his actions, and in doing so ensure that any similar attitudes will be driven from the public square.

Well, the message seems to have gotten through. Gary Abblett's had to explain why he liked Folau's post and that it had nothing to do with homophobia. Samu Kerevi's felt the need to apologise for expressing his Christian faith on the Easter weekend. Billy Vunipola's been hassled by the public and threatened by a pitch invader, sure, but he's acknowledged that it's [retty much his fault for "putting his foot in his mouth." And even on this thread, in response to my point that all forms of bigotry are objectionable. one of the responses was that anti-Christian bigotry wasn't that bad, really, because Christians at least had the option of keeping their opinions to themselves.

How's that for irony? If Christians don't want to be discriminated against they can just stay in the closet! Something tells me we'll be seeing a lot more of that going forward.

 

[Aurelius]

Could you imagine an All Black getting away with this? These guys understand their place in society. It is not to get up on a soap box and spray us with their uninformed and uneducated opinions.

I remember an All Black getting away with a quickie in a public bathroom, but no, I cant imagine an All Black getting away with expressing old-school Christian beliefs on social media.

Which is kind of my point.

 

[sidelineview]

There is no "rationale". There is the simple reality that whether you like it or not, a lot of people, including a lot of mainstream Christians, would have been appalled at his fundamentalist bile.


He is not an ordained person, as far as I know. He is, or was, employed as a rugby player. Rugby players at the elite level are in a very privileged situation.

Could you imagine an All Black getting away with this? These guys understand their place in society. It is not to get up on a soap box and spray us with their uninformed and uneducated opinions.


If Izzy decides to preach in public, he needs to get some theological qualifications, and take up holy orders.

Utter rubbish.

 

[sidelineview]

Of course RA aren't going to come out and say that, but the persecution is evident when you see the double standards at play. When you've had cases of players doing drugs, getting involved in fights on tour, undermining coaches, getting drunk publicly and so on, and they're all offered a chance at rehabilitation, you have to wonder what's so terrible about Folau's post that not only has his firing been announced, but he's been publicly disowned by his coach and teammates, humiliated by the chairman of the NRL telling the world that there's no room for Folau in his code and everyone who's so much as liked his post on Instagram has been warned by their own employers.

That's why this is so much more than just an employment issue. If RA just wanted to discipline him, then dropping him for a fortnight would have done just fine. Or a month, if they took it that seriously. Instead, what they're doing is trying to destroy him professionally. Why would they do this? The only reason that makes any sense is that it's his attitude they want to punish, not his actions, and in doing so ensure that any similar attitudes will be driven from the public square.

Well, the message seems to have gotten through. Gary Abblett's had to explain why he liked Folau's post and that it had nothing to do with homophobia. Samu Kerevi's felt the need to apologise for expressing his Christian faith on the Easter weekend. Billy Vunipola's been hassled by the public and threatened by a pitch invader, sure, but he's acknowledged that it's [retty much his fault for "putting his foot in his mouth." And even on this thread, in response to my point that all forms of bigotry are objectionable. one of the responses was that anti-Christian bigotry wasn't that bad, really, because Christians at least had the option of keeping their opinions to themselves.

How's that for irony? If Christians don't want to be discriminated against they can just stay in the closet! Something tells me we'll be seeing a lot more of that going forward.

Another group of people were pressured to stay in the closet in the past. How's that for irony.

Just for the record NRL's Beattie is a bit of a clutz and doesn't make those decisions himself on behalf of the NRL. He was quick to jump on the band wagon.

 

[Aurelius]

Another group of people were pressured to stay in the closet in the past.

Just for the record NRL's Beattie is a bit of a clutz and doesn't make those decisions himself on behalf of the NRL. He was quick to jump on the band wagon.

After the cluster he made of the Commonwealth Games closing ceremony last year, it amazes me that any sporting body would touch him with a ten-foot barge poll.

 

[brokendown]

At the very least,Issy has been poorly advised-unless it is part of a master plan

 

[formerflanker]

For all those who support Codes of Practice, corporate rules, and HR departments, here is a different perspective I read today.

“The rapid evolution of a society destroys its customs and imposes on the individual, in place of the silent education of traditions, the reins and the whip of laws.”
Nicolás Gómez Dávila, 1913-1994:

 

[Kenny Powers]

Yeah, the question "what value does a HR department provide?" is always an interesting one. When they started bracket creeping into nebulous shit "culture policies" ......

HR Managers have never had to turn a profit in their life therefore they are the most useless department in any company.

They are a department desperately searching for relevance.