The Israel Folau saga

[Derpus]

The test of an organisation is how they respond when things go wrong. I would argue that the coach and the captain have acted poorly and that they will not be able to unite the team. They should have kept their thoughts to themselves. And if the wallabies fail to perform at the world cup then both need to be cut. If they don't get out of the pool stages, then both should be terminated before they land back in Australia.​

Any chance to have a crack, eh.

Cheika is gone after the RWC, regardless. Hooper isn't, and i don't see why he should be. He's consistently the hardest working player in any team he's in and generally one of the best too.

Also, i don't see what any of this has to do with Izzy and it's an extreme stretch to criticize them for responding to Izzy's problem.

 

[JeepsTragic]

They were clearly put up in front of the media to give a statement and answer questions on behalf of Rugby Australia because they are the coach and the captain.



Do you think they decided themselves that they'd like to do a press conference?

That is a reasonable question and I don't know the answer. If RA did push the coach and captain to condemn a team mate, then Castle and Clyne both need to go. They have done the team no favours.

 

[Braveheart81]

That is a reasonable question and I don't know the answer. If RA did push the coach and captain to condemn a team mate, then Castle and Clyne both need to go. They have done the team no favours.

Have you actually watched the full press conference?

Do you really think they condemned Folau? I don't.

It's another part of the overall shit sandwich Folau has forced RA (and himself) to eat. There was no option for them to pretend nothing had happened and it wasn't an issue.

Given how much of the press conference was them talking about the team and the importance for everyone to be united in their efforts for the team to create success it's interesting you think this was so negative for the team.

 

[JeepsTragic]

Any chance to have a crack, eh.



Cheika is gone after the RWC, regardless. Hooper isn't, and i don't see why he should be. He's consistently the hardest working player in any team he's in and generally one of the best too.



Also, i don't see what any of this has to do with Izzy and it's an extreme stretch to criticize them for responding to Izzy's problem.

How about addressing the point. Do you think that the religious Polynesian players will trust either captain or coach? They believe what Izzy said is right and it doesn't matter what you or I think, they thought it was about faith. So the question is, do you think Chieka and Hooper can unite the team?

 

[Braveheart81]

How about addressing the point. Do you think that the religious Polynesian players will trust either captain or coach? They believe what Izzy said is right and it doesn't matter what you or I think, they thought it was about faith. So the question is, do you think Chieka and Hooper can unite the team?

Yes. I don't think they'll have an issue with it.

Every other player except Folau seems to have realised that religious posts are absolutely fine as long as you don't vilify anyone.

 

[Ignoto]

How about addressing the point. Do you think that the religious Polynesian players will trust either captain or coach? They believe what Izzy said is right and it doesn't matter what you or I think, they thought it was about faith. So the question is, do you think Chieka and Hooper can unite the team?

Have a listen to Turinuri's take on all of this on the Rugby Ruckas. He specifically mentions that it won't be an issue as there are plenty of issues that the 30-40 blokes in/around the Wallabies all differ on. They're able to put that aside and play.

Look at your workplace and ask who voted for the LNP/Labor/Greens/Ind over the week. Are you still able to work with your colleagues even if they don't fundamentally believe everything you do?

 

[Derpus]

How about addressing the point. Do you think that the religious Polynesian players will trust either captain or coach? They believe what Izzy said is right and it doesn't matter what you or I think, they thought it was about faith. So the question is, do you think Chieka and Hooper can unite the team?

Yes. Most adults can keep these issues separate. Plus, they are incentivized by pay.

 

[The torpedo]

ABC reporting Izzy will not appeal

 

[Derpus]

ABC reporting Izzy will not appeal

Link or more details? are they just referring to the internal appeal, or appeal in any form?

 

[Strewthcobber]

RA have put out a statement

"The 72-hour window for Israel Folau to appeal his high-level Code of Conduct breach and sanction has expired," RA said in a statement.
"As Folau has not notified the panel of his intention to appeal, the Code of Conduct process has now formally concluded.
"With the Code of Conduct matter complete, Folau's employment contract will be terminated."

 

[KOB1987]

That's the CoC process, which is completely separate to court action.

 

[Show-n-go]

They were clearly put up in front of the media to give a statement and answer questions on behalf of Rugby Australia because they are the coach and the captain.

Do you think they decided themselves that they'd like to do a press conference?

Careful I suggested something similar a week ago and sully came along and deleted the comment saying it wasn’t helpful to the conversation - don’t want to get the mods offside

 

[The torpedo]

Link or more details? are they just referring to the internal appeal, or appeal in any form?

Was just a breaking news banner (which appears to have been deleted)

 

[JeepsTragic]

Have a listen to Turinuri's take on all of this on the Rugby Ruckas. He specifically mentions that it won't be an issue as there are plenty of issues that the 30-40 blokes in/around the Wallabies all differ on. They're able to put that aside and play.



Look at your workplace and ask who voted for the LNP/Labor/Greens/Ind over the week. Are you still able to work with your colleagues even if they don't fundamentally believe everything you do?

Don't know because I work with adults. But a 62 yr old economist working for a big company stabbed a Tony Abbott supporter with a cork screw on Friday night. Do you think he could work with an Abbott supporter? Or a Trump supporter? Do you think that there were any players who would have felt they couldn't work with Izzy because of his comments?

Most conservatives don't give a monkeys about what Folau said and believe that everyone is entitled to their opinion. Who thought that what Izzy said was reflective of the RA? Nobody. Only a fool would think that.

People need to stop taking offence and allow everybody to have their opinion but that is another argument.

The point is that many Polynesian players are deeply religious. They might keep their mouths shut out of fear of retribution, but some would see it as an attack on their faith. They hear the words that RA is inclusive but they see RA is inclusive except if you are an outspoken Christian. Faith to them is far more important than politics.

Pocock said he wasn't going to get married until SSM passed. 40% of the community disagreed. Why is it OK for Pocock to state his beliefs but not Israel? But Pocock can say what he wants. As long as he performs on the field who cares what is personal opinions are and who cares if he trumpets them from a soap box in Martin place. Nobody thinks that his opinion is that of RA and nobody thought what Folau said was representative of RA.

 

[Braveheart81]

This ain't it, Chief.

 

[Pfitzy]

That's the CoC process, which is completely separate to court action.

Yup - no point hopping on that horse again when it has thrown you once.

Straight to Big Boy Court.

 

[oztimmay]

Don't know because I work with adults. But a 62 yr old economist working for a big company stabbed a Tony Abbott supporter with a cork screw on Friday night. Do you think he could work with an Abbott supporter? Or a Trump supporter? Do you think that there were any players who would have felt they couldn't work with Izzy because of his comments?

Most conservatives don't give a monkeys about what Folau said and believe that everyone is entitled to their opinion. Who thought that what Izzy said was reflective of the RA? Nobody. Only a fool would think that.

People need to stop taking offence and allow everybody to have their opinion but that is another argument.

The point is that many Polynesian players are deeply religious. They might keep their mouths shut out of fear of retribution, but some would see it as an attack on their faith. They hear the words that RA is inclusive but they see RA is inclusive except if you are an outspoken Christian. Faith to them is far more important than politics.

Pocock said he wasn't going to get married until SSM passed. 40% of the community disagreed. Why is it OK for Pocock to state his beliefs but not Israel? But Pocock can say what he wants. As long as he performs on the field who cares what is personal opinions are and who cares if he trumpets them from a soap box in Martin place. Nobody thinks that his opinion is that of RA and nobody thought what Folau said was representative of RA.

Freedom to express your religious view doesn't give you freedom from consequence. Many players express the religious views in a respective manner. The prayer circle seen after a match is a good example.


Pocock expressed his position on SSM in a respectful and dignified manner. Do you feel it was not respectful? It's clear in the actions that by RA, combined with the view of a large cross-section of the general public, found the way Isreal expressed his views breached his employment contract. I don't think David breached the code of conduct, or his employment contract in general, by express his position on marriage and the legalization of SSM.

 

[Braveheart81]

 

[Bandar]

I don't think David breached the code of conduct, or his employment contract in general, by express his position on marriage and the legalization of SSM.

Israel also stated his position on the legalization of SSM without issue

 

[JeepsTragic]

Freedom to express your religious view doesn't give you freedom from consequence. Many players express the religious views in a respective manner. The prayer circle seen after a match is a good example.





Pocock expressed his position on SSM in a respectful and dignified manner. Do you feel it was not respectful? It's clear in the actions that by RA, combined with the view of a large cross-section of the general public, found the way Isreal expressed his views breached his employment contract. I don't think David breached the code of conduct, or his employment contract in general, by express his position on marriage and the legalization of SSM.

The problem is that one opinion reflects the progressive left and the other the religious right. (generally speaking) Pocock has the right to his opinions and so does Israel. If somebody got offended well that is their problem. I think that a lot of the opinions voiced by Pocock are batsh#t crazy. But he has the right to voice those opinions.

As a society and a rugby community we should care more about the rugby and less about the politics. We have enough of that in our everyday life and we don't need this in Rugby.