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The impending Hooper vs Pocock Dilemma

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Floggn'

Floggn'

Jimmy Flynn (14)
qwerty51 said:
Yes? Hooper won in 2012 and 2014 (he tied with Slipper, not sure why GAGR gave it to Slipper but that's another story).
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So are you saying that a prop doesn't like it or its not advantageous for a flanker to push with his prop? Because Pocock does that Hooper does not, more often than not. On the other point I would say that Hooper was smashed on this website for a few tests last year which means he had a bad game. Please find me evidence of when that sort of thing was said about Pocock. So yes I am serious and No I am not kidding.
 
qwerty51

qwerty51

Stirling Mortlock (74)
I'm saying the difference between what Hooper and Pocock contribute to the scrum is next to nothing in the overall terms of the scrum. Hooper is probably a worse scrummager but you're kidding if you think that's a viable factor in deciding who to play. Hooper's main problem is he disengages early on defence so he can get to the opposition quicker, I'm sure he can be coached out of doing that if the coach wants to..

If Hooper has been smashed for having shit Tests why is he topping the count of votes on this site for best player? :confused:
 
The_Brown_Hornet

The_Brown_Hornet

John Eales (66)
I think we'll need to find a way to use the skill sets of both players to their fullest. All things being equal with fitness and form, I'd be inclined to start Pocock against England and Wales with a view to creating havoc at the breakdown and blunting their power attacking game. In the case of Wales, it might also cause them to become frustrated and lose their shape a bit (I don't expect this from England, they're extremely disciplined as a general rule). Doing that for say, 50-60 minutes of the game then creates opportunities for Hooper to attack on the fringes, while not really losing anything defensively (Hooper is an excellent tackler).

The NH sides will clearly try and impose that bash and barge game on us and we have to do our best to neutralise it, hopefully not leaking points in the process. Pocock helps us do that more than most. Hooper on the other hand helps us put the game away in a manner that Pocock doesn't.

It'll be horses for courses I think.
 
Floggn'

Floggn'

Jimmy Flynn (14)
Further to what I said Qwerty. Where a lot of people thought he had bad games mate.
I am certainly not saying he is a bad player I just said I personally can't remember when people would rank Pocock in the bottom 6 if not last in the team, meaning he had a bad game.
http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/wallabies-player-rankings-versus-england/

http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/wallabies-player-rankings-ireland/

http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/wallabies-versus-france-player-rankings/

http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/wallabies-player-rankings-vs-argentina/
 
qwerty51

qwerty51

Stirling Mortlock (74)
I'm all for debating the merit of who to start if we put both into the 23 and I think that's Hooper because we need his ball carrying for the full 80. I think big time pilfer penalties are also more common in the 2nd half as fatigue from the attacking side sets in and their cleanouts are poorer. You should secure your own ball pretty well in the 1st half. I don't see how we're going to implement Cheika's style of play without Hooper - we've never see it at the Tahs or the short stint at Wallaby level.

Just remember the Barbarians game when Hodgson was the 7, the Wallabies attack improved when McMahon came on and gave us good front foot ball.
 
Floggn'

Floggn'

Jimmy Flynn (14)
qwerty51 said:
I'm all for debating the merit of who to start if we put both into the 23 and I think that's Hooper because we need his ball carrying for the full 80. I think big time pilfer penalties are also more common in the 2nd half as fatigue from the attacking side sets in and their cleanouts are poorer. You should secure your own ball pretty well in the 1st half. I don't see how we're going to implement Cheika's style of play without Hooper - we've never see it at the Tahs or the short stint at Wallaby level.

Just remember the Barbarians game when Hodgson was the 7, the Wallabies attack improved when McMahon came on and gave us good front foot ball.
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Don't disagree about to the style of play can dictate the players selected. However I hope Cheika doesn't go into the WC like Deans did with 1 style of play. We will be found out. If we don't adapt to how a team is playing against us we will lose no question and I think that was a big problem in last years spring tour. The Tahs have struggled this year with teams that now know how to defend against them. But I suppose that is for another thread.
 
JJJ

JJJ

Vay Wilson (31)
qwerty51 said:
If Hooper has been smashed for having shit Tests why is he topping the count of votes on this site for best player? :confused:
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I think a bit of that might just be the glory and visibility of the openside position. I remember someone saying there was a representative side running a training camp who asked for a group of clubs to send their best couple of players and half of the players who got sent were openside flankers. That seems to fit for Australian sides at least. If you asked supporters of the Force, Brumbies, Tahs and Reds who their best player was they'd probably name their 7. Rebels I don't know about.
 
cyclopath

cyclopath

George Smith (75)
Staff member
Floggn' said:
Further to what I said Qwerty. Where a lot of people thought he had bad games mate.
I am certainly not saying he is a bad player I just said I personally can't remember when people would rank Pocock in the bottom 6 if not last in the team, meaning he had a bad game.
http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/wallabies-player-rankings-versus-england/

http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/wallabies-player-rankings-ireland/

http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/wallabies-versus-france-player-rankings/

http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/wallabies-player-rankings-vs-argentina/
Click to expand...
You clearly don't understand how those "rankings" work if you can't see the flaw in the system. The more meaningful data is from the 3-2-1 votes in the threads on the forum than clickbait on the side of the page.
 
Tomikin

Tomikin

David Codey (61)
It's going to be cracking to see, at the moment, I would still select Hooper, he hasn't done anything wrong to lose his spot and David hasn't demanded being selected (yet).

I would say Poey will need to play as well or if not better then G.Smith did to unseat Hooper in 2013 (Hoopers better now then he was then). Although I think with hindsight it was a poor call to throw smith in coming off the back of injury... plus then I don't know how he stayed out there once he was K.O'd.. But at the time I was screaming he should be selected..
 
Dave Beat

Dave Beat

Paul McLean (56)
Tomikin said:
It's going to be cracking to see, at the moment, I would still select Hooper, he hasn't done anything wrong to lose his spot and David hasn't demanded being selected (yet).

I would say Poey will need to play as well or if not better then G.Smith did to unseat Hooper in 2013 (Hoopers better now then he was then). Although I think with hindsight it was a poor call to throw smith in coming off the back of injury. plus then I don't know how he stayed out there once he was K.O'd.. But at the time I was screaming he should be selected..
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Yep Smith demanded selection.
 
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