The Hickey should stay thread

[Langthorne]

Maybe it would be a good idea to clear up the time frame we are looking at with regards to Hickey staying or going.

Are those who say he should stay saying "until the end of the season" or "forever - he is the best available"?

Are those who say he should go saying "this week - the disruption would be worth it" or "at the end of the season"?

 

[waratahjesus]

Maybe it would be a good idea to clear up the time frame we are looking at with regards to Hickey staying or going.

Are those who say he should stay saying "until the end of the season" or "forever - he is the best available"?

Are those who say he should go saying "this week - the disruption would be worth it" or "at the end of the season"?

in an ideal world, one were an organisation was run professionally, the decision would be made behind closed doors if hickey were to stay or go, this decision would be made in time to contact other coaches when there contracts came up if hickey were to go but not announced publicly till season end. if he is to stay then say so now and sign some of the players you have off contract.

 

[fatprop]

Interesting comments from Mitchell about being replaced, he basically was down in match fitness as he hadn't played the trials and was blowing hard. Same about Horne, not ready to start yet as he needs to get his game legs.

 

[CanadianRugby]

Maybe it would be a good idea to clear up the time frame we are looking at with regards to Hickey staying or going.

Are those who say he should stay saying "until the end of the season" or "forever - he is the best available"?

Are those who say he should go saying "this week - the disruption would be worth it" or "at the end of the season"?

My feelings are "we need to see improvements over the next 3-5 weeks or he goes". If we had seen more of the same crap that we saw against the stormers, then he would be in real trouble (with me, which is really all that should count). The game against the Bulls and the chance to beat a struggling Sharks team means I'll back off a bit. But only a bit. A sloppy win this week won't help him.

 

[TheRiddler]

Funny, no posts to this thread since last night performance? Where are all the Hickey defenders? Hanging your head in shame? Or, much like your idol, believing that a win's a win and therefore everything's all ok with the world?

 

[Langthorne]

I am rapidly coming to the realisation that if a new suitably qualified coach can be found it wouldn't hurt to have him come in soon. The round 1 'win is a win' against QLD was fine, but nothing seems to have been learnt. The Waratahs' performances need to change if they are to win this competition (yes, that should be the aim - fuck making the semi finals as an aim).
If (as I think is the case) Hickey's game plans (and general approach) are being put into place, he needs to change fast or go.
If the problem is the players, Hickey should pull them into line or find players to replace the ones who aren't performing.
Either way, he is the guy in charge, therefore he is the guy most responsible.

 

[rugbywhisperer]

How is a new or different coach going to fix;
1: Carters horrible ability and non ability to read a game,
2: Mitchells apparent lack of skills and intelligence, and worse of all - even the commentators made note
3: a first option kick. This just shows that the players themselves have no clue. This is flying in the face of everything we teach the kiddies from day one and it for one shows a complete disrespect for the hard work the forwards to in securing posession in the first place.
There was no gain at all last night for that episode of aimless kicking - jees some players have an abilityto ruin a game - play to not lose - go to England - they are good at that but leave that rubbish elsewhere -

 

[Jets]

I thought there was an interesting shot during last nights game when they showed the coach's box and Hickey was sitting there all by himself. Not to many friends at the moment. The Sharks were there for the killing yet they almost won the game. I'm not a Tah's fan but I did tip them to finish in the top 2 this year based on their playing stocks.

Also in the post match interview Waugh said something like "we tried to play expansive rugby". When???

 

[Langthorne]

How is a new or different coach going to fix;
1: Carters horrible ability and non ability to read a game,
2: Mitchells apparent lack of skills and intelligence, and worse of all - even the commentators made note
3: a first option kick. This just shows that the players themselves have no clue. This is flying in the face of everything we teach the kiddies from day one and it for one shows a complete disrespect for the hard work the forwards to in securing posession in the first place.
There was no gain at all last night for that episode of aimless kicking - jees some players have an abilityto ruin a game - play to not lose - go to England - they are good at that but leave that rubbish elsewhere -

So what are you saying? We are not seeing Hickey's game plans put into practice? He is stuck with crap players? They won't do what he tells them?

Option 1. Coach the team - change their shit play into good play

Option 2. Change the team - get players in who do what you ask of them (there are a lot of players in NSW, please pick your prefered 15 Mr Hickey - or are you saying every player in NSW kicks as a first option?)

A good coach would one one of those, or a combination of both.

The big problem is that good players are playing inconsistently or just plain badly (worse than when Hickey took over). I don't accept that the playing stock isn't available - just ask the other Aussie s14 coaches if they'd like to take their pick of the Waratahs squad - they'd bite your hand off.

The only grey area for me is whether a suitable replacement can be found, and whether the disruption of a change over would make matters worse (for instance, I don't want the players to think that when they play badly it will always be the coach who gets it).

 

[Pfitzy]

A good coach wouldn't keep Trundles Carter at 13.

Against the Lions we need to see some initiative* and rotation+ to give guys a chance:

1 Kepu+
2 TPN
3 Baxter
4 Douglas
5 Dennis
6 Mowen*
7 Waugh
8 Palu
9 Holmes+
10 Hangers
11 Shmoo
12 Barnes
13 Horne*
14 Turner
15 Beale*

16 Fitzpatrick (who must get at least one half of play)
17 Palmer (up to 20 minutes)
18 Roodt+ (at least 20 minutes)
19 Mumm
20 Burgess
21 Carter
22 Sidey

I just hope they're over whatever jet lag they're claiming

 

[RugbyReg]

from what I saw, and from other reports, the most dangerous back for the Tahs has been Peter Betham.

I wonder if its because he has supposedly signed with the Rebels that he isn't getting a crack? A better option than Sidey, that's for sure.

 

[Langthorne]

I just hope they're over whatever jet lag they're claiming

Bollocks they have - or is that Hickey's excuse for his selections and tactics?

Mumm is benched for his crap display against the Sharks I guess? Coming on from the bench for a chance to redeem himself?

If the coach is planning on giving the bench a run I like the idea of telling the guys who are likely to be replaced what will happen (ie don't leave anything in the tank for the last 20mins, you are going to be replaced).

As with the Sharks, the Lions are no pushover, and they will win at some stage, so the Waratahs shouldn't take a win for granted (and certainly not a 4 try bonus point).

Initiative and rotation are both good reasons to make changes, especially if the players rotated out have injuries to recover from, but as a rule I still like to see the best available team starting the match.

 

[cyclopath]

I thought there was an interesting shot during last nights game when they showed the coach's box and Hickey was sitting there all by himself. Not to many friends at the moment. The Sharks were there for the killing yet they almost won the game. I'm not a Tah's fan but I did tip them to finish in the top 2 this year based on their playing stocks.

Also in the post match interview Waugh said something like "we tried to play expansive rugby". When???

Expansive for Waugh means Burgess passing to a loose forward 2 wide of the ruck who shovels into the ground, usually alone, leading to slow, useless ball.
They all reflexively kick. Even when they have a good counter-attack position with several players in some space. And they kick BADLY. Barnes especially.
And if they don't, they kill whatever opportunities come their way. There is no rugby nous.
Late in the 1st half, the Tahs had a 3 on 1 down the right side, TPN (I think) got it and just piled forward and got tackled. Now , if anyone might have got through to score, it was him, BUT it was a simple through the hands play to score, and a half-decent team would have scored. Should have scored.

 

[fatprop]

Funny, no posts to this thread since last night performance? Where are all the Hickey defenders? Hanging your head in shame? Or, much like your idol, believing that a win's a win and therefore everything's all ok with the world?

The Tahs were terrible last night, but they were just home from SA. None of the three sides back played well with the Brumbies as average as the Tahs and the Chiefs losing

 

[Lee Grant]

Too lazy to post anything this morning so will give this link to the blog.

http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/tahs-fans-have-had-enough/

 

[waratahjesus]

A good coach wouldn't keep Trundles Carter at 13.

Against the Lions we need to see some initiative* and rotation+ to give guys a chance:

1 Kepu+
2 TPN
3 Baxter
4 Douglas
5 Dennis
6 Mowen*
7 Waugh
8 Palu
9 Holmes+
10 Hangers
11 Shmoo
12 Barnes
13 Horne*
14 Turner
15 Beale*

16 Fitzpatrick (who must get at least one half of play)
17 Palmer (up to 20 minutes)
18 Roodt+ (at least 20 minutes)
19 Mumm
20 Burgess
21 Carter
22 Sidey

I just hope they're over whatever jet lag they're claiming

so your plan is to drop the best loose head in world rugby?
horne to I3 when he is match fit is going to happen, the Tahs will have more idea if he is ready or not.
and also, your keeping dennis in place of mumm, mumm should be the next tahs captain and he should be out there always

 

[Ash]

LG - agree entirely. Glad someone else noticed Hangers standing too deep, thought I was a bit crazy there for a second.

The Tahs had plenty of chances to counter, but blew them all. The second half was pathetic.

One bright spot was Burgess' break early on off the lineout and the forwards supporting and popping small inside passes was Crusader-esque, but they unfortunately forced the last pass instead of taking the tackle. Guess bright spots like that at the start just highlighted how bad the rest of the game really was.

 

[naza]

Expansive for Waugh means Burgess passing to a loose forward 2 wide of the ruck who shovels into the ground, usually alone, leading to slow, useless ball.
They all reflexively kick. Even when they have a good counter-attack position with several players in some space. And they kick BADLY. Barnes especially.
And if they don't, they kill whatever opportunities come their way. There is no rugby nous.
Late in the 1st half, the Tahs had a 3 on 1 down the right side, TPN (I think) got it and just piled forward and got tackled. Now , if anyone might have got through to score, it was him, BUT it was a simple through the hands play to score, and a half-decent team would have scored. Should have scored.

Very astute comments, cyclo.

The trouble with the Tahs is that Phil Waugh runs the show. Rightly or wrongly, Waugh wields more influence and power than the coach. Waugh favours a conservative style and is also a control freak. He is stifling the Tahs. Any enterprise is second guessed by Phil, the back seat driver from hell. Nothing will change until Waugh goes.

 

[mark_s]

Jeez we are fickle fans aren't we? You have to wait 4-6 weeks in this comp before you can really tell how your team is travelling given the impact the draw and travel has on week to week results. There have been years that we have been 4 from 4 and ended up dieing in the arse and missing the finals and in 2008 we came home with a wet sail after a poor start.

I reserve my judgment of Hickey until after the blues home game. I agree the signs aren't great for the tahs and neither Hickey or Waugh are covering themselves in glory, but then again the chiefs were poor at the start of last year and ending up making the final.

 

[topo]

Agree with Mark S. I keep thinking back to the Crusaders for years under Robbie who always started slowly and came home with a wet sail and the Chiefs last year who looked ordinary for 4-5 weeks and then were standouts (until the final anyway). You've got to give them a couple of more weeks before you send Hickey, Carter, Barnes, Anesi, Waugh, Burgess and others to death row.