The_Brown_Hornet
John Eales (66)
No team is obligated to face it, the ceremony is not for their benefit.
The Haka? Is it performed too often
- Thread starter Sully
- Start date
Joe King
Dave Cowper (27)
I think they should keep it, but perform it before the national anthems.
I've also thought for a while that the Wallabies should face it by firstly, spreading right out across the half way line (so as to present a bigger target); and secondly, by showing aggression in reply while it is being performed. Nothing choreographed, but just individual expressions of aggression (thumping chest and thighs at random, gritting teeth, frothing at the mouth, etc). What this does is it forces the Wallabies to put it all on the line and play hard and well, or look silly.
I've also thought for a while that the Wallabies should face it by firstly, spreading right out across the half way line (so as to present a bigger target); and secondly, by showing aggression in reply while it is being performed. Nothing choreographed, but just individual expressions of aggression (thumping chest and thighs at random, gritting teeth, frothing at the mouth, etc). What this does is it forces the Wallabies to put it all on the line and play hard and well, or look silly.
Nath
Bill Watson (15)
Fairly sure the 87 WC final was the first time it was performed at home, prior to that it was only when they traveled. There's a doco on fox at the moment called rugby by the balls. Try and watch it before the Cup's over if you can.
I thought all the super rugby teams doing it on the Lions tour was a bit much, it became clear it was for the TV dollar, and even though it's not my place to say necessarily as an outsider, I think, many kiwis would agree, that's starting to lose the point of what it means.
I thought all the super rugby teams doing it on the Lions tour was a bit much, it became clear it was for the TV dollar, and even though it's not my place to say necessarily as an outsider, I think, many kiwis would agree, that's starting to lose the point of what it means.
Dan54
David Wilson (68)
Actually Nath, if you actually watched the teams that did it before Lions game, they didn't do the AB haka, but I not sure if you realise most have their own haka or one from their region,and I can assure you there is no way TV paid anymore for Lions games because a haka was being done before hand, and frankly is a bit insulting to players if you thought that's why they did it!! same as most schools in NZ have one, as schools over here have chants and songs they do before and after games. You right it was originally done only for away tests.
Nath
Bill Watson (15)
I was aware of all that. The team I played for was very multicultural, with a strong kiwi influence.
But what haka are they actually doing?
Because super rugby sides stretch across regions, and many players are from other super rugby areas anyway.
I can understand if it was a local team, with all guys from the area, doing their local haka, but that wouldn't have been the case here.
It might not have been extra money specifically for that, but it might have been suggested that it was a good idea, for the sake of the tv coverage.
Nath
Bill Watson (15)
Form the article you posted, not a whole lot of difference between what he(he being a former all black) says, and what I said:
Karam, who played 42 games (10 tests) for the All Blacks from 1972-75, said he would like to see it go back to a similar system.
"This is not meant with any disrespect to the haka or anything to do with Māoridom; it's simply that I think the overuse has made it banal and, to some extent, embarrassing in a way – as though the whole of New Zealand is living for the haka when really we're not, we're living to watch the All Blacks play a game," Karam said.
"It's become a PR, branding, money-making exercise as opposed to something which could add much more value if it was treated respectfully for particular occasions which could be the last game of a tour or perhaps the first game of the year or whatever it might be. Now the focus of the All Blacks appears to almost be more on the haka; they must spend hours and hours practicing.
"The general populous in New Zealand for say the last 30 years thinks that the haka is an integral, customary tradition of the All Blacks but until about 1980 the only time the haka was ever done by the All Blacks was on the last game of each tour they went on. It wasn't ever done in New Zealand at all, (so) the customary tradition sort of thing is not really real; it's not a part of All Blacks folklore, bearing in mind the All Blacks go back to 1905."
If you want me to leave it I will, but I don't think I've said anything that inflammatory.
Karam, who played 42 games (10 tests) for the All Blacks from 1972-75, said he would like to see it go back to a similar system.
"This is not meant with any disrespect to the haka or anything to do with Māoridom; it's simply that I think the overuse has made it banal and, to some extent, embarrassing in a way – as though the whole of New Zealand is living for the haka when really we're not, we're living to watch the All Blacks play a game," Karam said.
"It's become a PR, branding, money-making exercise as opposed to something which could add much more value if it was treated respectfully for particular occasions which could be the last game of a tour or perhaps the first game of the year or whatever it might be. Now the focus of the All Blacks appears to almost be more on the haka; they must spend hours and hours practicing.
"The general populous in New Zealand for say the last 30 years thinks that the haka is an integral, customary tradition of the All Blacks but until about 1980 the only time the haka was ever done by the All Blacks was on the last game of each tour they went on. It wasn't ever done in New Zealand at all, (so) the customary tradition sort of thing is not really real; it's not a part of All Blacks folklore, bearing in mind the All Blacks go back to 1905."
If you want me to leave it I will, but I don't think I've said anything that inflammatory.
Dan54
David Wilson (68)
No and I don't take your posts as inflammatory Nath, as I don't think we are disagreeing in anyway, I just trying to answer your questions which I think are fair. When you ask what haka super teams did against Lions, would either been one from local iwi, or had one written that was appropriate to their area as do colleges etc, it a little hard to explain without going into great detail, and easier for kiwis to understand admittedly, and a lot of us don't understand properly. there are many hakas, the NZ army has a great one etc etc. but rightfully there are many opinions on it, whether from fans of game or former All Blacks etc, but former ABs opinion is no more or less valid then yours or mine, and I not strongly for it or against it, because if a team felt they shouldn't do it, then they shouldn't, if Australia decided they didn't want it done here they have every right to say don't do it, but if Italy or Scotland etc want ABs to do it that is also their right.
TSR
Andrew Slack (58)
I’ve always thought of Cyclo as more the Boris Yeltsin type. But with less dancing skills.
I resemble that comment!
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Aurelius
Ted Thorn (20)
Why shouldn't you be allowed to cross the line? Why not march right up under their noses and show them you're not intimidated? It would be far better theatre than what we've got now, where the players just stand there looking grave and the New Zealand commentators give them credit for "accepting the challenge."
I wonder what it would actually do to the All Blacks' aura of invincibility if every team for a year (or even just, say, a Northern Hemisphere tour) just decided to challenge the haka and live with the fines. They'd probably be a little more beatable.
Aurelius
Ted Thorn (20)
Wow. Really? I should have been kissing his ass all this time.
Hmmm, no.
Aurelius
Ted Thorn (20)
Viking
Mark Ella (57)
It will lead to a fight. Like it did it in the past which is why they put in place the distance rule in the first place.
The torpedo
Peter Fenwicke (45)
Honestly? Just get rid of the 'no crossing the 1/2way line' rule. It feels like a convenient excuse to stop any unique responses to the haka and give the ABs a psychological advantage as you basically have to stand there and cop it.
And fights? Well make the laws clear on the punishment, march the main culprits to the bin, penalty to the non-instigating team. Supensions/fines/etc. can be dished out at the judiciary.
And fights? Well make the laws clear on the punishment, march the main culprits to the bin, penalty to the non-instigating team. Supensions/fines/etc. can be dished out at the judiciary.