The guessing game: return of Vickerman

[Lee Grant]

Agree with Brucie about the poor quality of the journalism. Guinness knows f.all about rugby but I am surprised by the inaccuracy of Wayne Smith who I rate highly.

 

[inthestands]

Agree with Brucie about the poor quality of the journalism. Guinness knows f.all about rugby but I am surprised by the inaccuracy of Wayne Smith who I rate highly.

Steady on... look at the time the information regarding the press conference was posted here: 7:53pm! This gives the journos very little time to rack together a story before deadline.

Credit to Guinness for at least getting someone to lend a voice to his article which the others didn't. Payten had under 300 words; Smith/Harris had 565 words with no voice and Guinness had 584.

Calculate the amount of money it would cost the SMH to send and accommodate Guinness with the Tahs to South Africa, New Zealand and around Oz in the S14 and clearly they believe he knows a little bit about the game. If anything, I think most of us agree he at least likes Rugby more than his partner in crime.

 

[Gnostic]

Guinness is a Rugby tragic and whilst he has on occassion had some truly cringe worthy articles I will always read what he has to say.

 

[Viking]

Vickerman is back!

This articale states that Vickerman is coming back to play for the waratahs and the wallabies. This is very good news as i've always considered our current locks to be weak links in the wallabies. His return is sure to strenghen the side.

From Rugby Heaven website: http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/u...or-wallabies-cup-campaign-20100812-121hj.html


Second to none: Vickerman return a coup for Wallabies' Cup campaign RUPERT GUINNESS
August 13, 2010

AUSTRALIAN rugby has received a massive boost - in manpower and morale - today when the Australian Rugby Union announced that Dan Vickerman has signed back on to play for the Wallabies and Waratahs.

The three-year deal from 2011 to 2013 means the 54-Test player will be available to play for Australia in next year's World Cup.

Regarded as one of the world's best second-rowers, Vickerman had been lost to Australian rugby since 2008 when he moved to England to study and play rugby at Cambridge University. However, the Herald's chief rugby correspondent, Greg Growden, reported on June 25 that Vickerman was a chance to return for the Wallabies' World Cup campaign.



Former Wallabies coach Eddie Jones last night lauded the news as ''fantastic'' for Australian rugby.

''It's always good to see good players come back, and he has come back for the right reason - to win for his province and country,'' Jones said. ''I know he could have earned more money, a lot more, in England. But with him and his obvious ambitions to play for Australia, he also brings that backbone and hardness that Australian rugby really needs.''

Vickerman will return to the Waratahs, with whom he played with before moving to England where he has been studying land economics at Cambridge University.

Vickerman has been training at the Waratahs gym at Moore Park for the past two months. In that time, he has also been negotiating and finalising his deal with the ARU and NSWRU.

A source last night told the Herald that the new contract Vickerman has signed would allow him to return to Australia from England - where he is expected to fly back to early next month - in time to rejoin the Waratahs and play in round nine of the extended Super 15 next year.

The length of the deal means Vickerman's influence will be positive for the Wallabies' World Cup hopes and for the development of the next wave of talent in the country.

Wallabies coach Robbie Deans has long been interested in securing Vickerman, but it raised several notches when Australia's second-row stocks started to dwindle early this year. First there was the season-long sidelining of Queensland Reds captain James Horwill in February. Then came the withdrawal due to injury of Wallabies stalwart and Western Force captain Nathan Sharpe from the domestic Test against Ireland in late June.

However, even with a full stock of world-class second-rowers, Vickerman's presence would rate as one of the most influential for the Wallabies. His uncompromising play and leadership are only matched by his intelligence across the park. He is also an excellent lineout general, and his defence and line-breaking abilities were astounding, inspiring others to follow.

It is also no secret that his passion to play a role in the World Cup is as high as it ever was.

Australia's elimination from the 2007 World Cup in France when they were beaten by England in the quarter-final at Marseille broke the hearts of every Wallaby and their fans. But there was no player more disappointed in the Wallabies than Vickerman. That sense of unfinished business will surely be bubbling deep within - and no doubt should inspire other players in the build-up to and during next year's tournament in New Zealand.

Jones also believes that with Vickerman's experience in England, he will return far more mature.

''His exposure overseas in the last couple of years will have done him well in rounding off his character,'' Jones said.

 

[#1 Tah]

At a Waratahs level, I prefer to have Mumm and Douglas starting, with Vickerman on the bench - I think this will make sure that our young locks keep developing and I think that Vicks is going to spend a lot of his time injured.

 

[H...]

Article makes out like we're getting John Eales in his prime back or something.

 

[Lee Grant]

Forgive a bit of hyperbole with the f.all comment.

At Knox Guinness was asking me who some of the players were in Huxley's comeback game for the Brumby Runners because the team lists were not according to Hoyle.

Whilst that by itself does not mean that he knows f.all I don't rate his articles highly compared to the likes of Smith and Tucker.

 

[jason]

Very pleased to hear this. I'm at Cambridge as well and I've had more than a few (drunken) chats with him, telling him he should head back to Tah/Wallaby territory when he graduates, but I never thought he'd actually do it. Obviously, he's a huge asset to Aussie rugby - a big, experienced lock who thrives doing the hard yards and is a great lineout caller - God knows we've come up short in that department.

That said, I think it's a bit unreasonable to expect him to solve all of our tight 5 problems. It really shits me when the press pin all of our hopes on one player, and if he doesn't deliver, slate him for being soft/lacking passion. Re-signing Vickerman is clearly a massive coup, but he's been out of top-flight rugby for a couple of years, so let's not expect miracles immediately. He's signed til 2013, and if he's willing to give that much time to Aussie rugby, we should give him that much time to come good too.

 

[Hawko]

One of the things not mentioned is that he has had nearly three years of high intensity rest. All sorts of good things happen when you do that. Ligaments tend to self-repair a bit for example. He may well come back a lot less injury-prone than we all think. As long as he does some high intensity fitness training January to June and maybe some minor grade games to get some match fitness, I for one think he will be very good for us for the last rounds of the S15 and finals and then the 2011 3N. Depending on who gets injured next year, we might have a number of highly qualified locks all pushing for two spots at the world cup.

 

[Bruce Ross]

At Knox Guinness was asking me who some of the players were in Huxley's comeback game for the Brumby Runners because the team lists were not according to Hoyle.

Guinness has just gone up in my estimation. If I were a journalist lacking information I'd also go and stand next to the walking encyclopedia of rugby knowledge, Lee Grant.

 

[Bruce Ross]

Very pleased to hear this. I'm at Cambridge as well and I've had more than a few (drunken) chats with him, telling him he should head back to Tah/Wallaby territory when he graduates, but I never thought he'd actually do it. Obviously, he's a huge asset to Aussie rugby - a big, experienced lock who thrives doing the hard yards and is a great lineout caller - God knows we've come up short in that department.

That said, I think it's a bit unreasonable to expect him to solve all of our tight 5 problems. It really shits me when the press pin all of our hopes on one player, and if he doesn't deliver, slate him for being soft/lacking passion. Re-signing Vickerman is clearly a massive coup, but he's been out of top-flight rugby for a couple of years, so let's not expect miracles immediately. He's signed til 2013, and if he's willing to give that much time to Aussie rugby, we should give him that much time to come good too.

One big plus is that he'll come back two years crankier - and if there's one thing that Australian rugby is always deficient in, it's hard men.

Dan never does anything without a lot of thought. At the time he went to Cambridge he left open the possibility of coming back to professional rugby but stated that he would see whether he still had the passion for it after he finished his studies. One thing that's certain is that dollars wouldn't have entered into his decision. He always said that he has never played for money. At the same time he doesn't let anyone put anything over him and manages his own negotiations.

The three year contract suggests that he's really committed. And it won't only be the players who will be nervous about the Vickerman glare - the coaches will also be apprehensive.

 

[Lindommer]

Agree with Brucie about the poor quality of the journalism. Guinness knows f.all about rugby...

He went to King's, whadya expect?

 

[Groucho]

Very pleased to hear this. I'm at Cambridge as well and I've had more than a few (drunken) chats with him, telling him he should head back to Tah/Wallaby territory when he graduates, but I never thought he'd actually do it. Obviously, he's a huge asset to Aussie rugby - a big, experienced lock who thrives doing the hard yards and is a great lineout caller - God knows we've come up short in that department.

That said, I think it's a bit unreasonable to expect him to solve all of our tight 5 problems. It really shits me when the press pin all of our hopes on one player, and if he doesn't deliver, slate him for being soft/lacking passion. Re-signing Vickerman is clearly a massive coup, but he's been out of top-flight rugby for a couple of years, so let's not expect miracles immediately. He's signed til 2013, and if he's willing to give that much time to Aussie rugby, we should give him that much time to come good too.

jason, what are you doing at Cambridge?[/threadjack]

 

[disco]

Fair enough, but it still appears he played close to 50% of wallaby games over that period. More than can be said for the likes of MMM!

MMM actually strung some games together for the Wallabies it was the Reds he never turned out for. I think 2005 MMM played the entire EOYT after knocking back the Wallabies tri-nations to put on some weight, in 2006 he missed the tri-nations & done his neck 1st game on EOYT. 2007 he was available for the Tri-nations & RWC but only served off the bench.

2008 he came off the bench during the tri nations & played the entire EOYT again.

 

[JJJ]

Some people seem down on Vicks, but I'm pretty bloody happy. A tighthead lock who's top drawer at set-pieces, and a known non-seaguller at the breakdown. Just what we've been asking for. Him and Horwill will make an excellent physical 2nd row, and with Sharpe on the bench our locking stocks are suddenly looking respectable. Are you guys really that pessimistic about him or are you just trying not to get your hopes up? As far as I can see the only better news we could've had is if a world-class specialist tighthead prop appeared out of nowhere to allow us to shift Ben Alexander to the bench to cover both sides of the scrum.

 

[Novocastrian]

Some people seem down on Vicks, but I'm pretty bloody happy. A tighthead lock who's top drawer at set-pieces, and a known non-seaguller at the breakdown. Just what we've been asking for. Him and Horwill will make an excellent physical 2nd row, and with Sharpe on the bench our locking stocks are suddenly looking respectable. Are you guys really that pessimistic about him or are you just trying not to get your hopes up? As far as I can see the only better news we could've had is if a world-class specialist tighthead prop appeared out of nowhere to allow us to shift Ben Alexander to the bench to cover both sides of the scrum.

All of that is fine if you assume that on his return Vickerman is the same player he was when he left. The problem is that when he does return it'll be ~3 years since he's played a competitive (in terms of fulltime professional) game of rugby and a lot can change in that time. It may be that 3 years rest has done him the world of good and he comes back better than ever, but to me it's more likely that he's going to come back 3 years older, slower and even more prone to injury than when he left - hardly the hard forward play messiah we seem to be tagging him as.

 

[Scotty]

I don't think anyone has tagged him as the forward messiah in this thread. But it is always good to have a top class player involved in the mix. Options are a good thing.

 

[Scotty]

If this is true, the ARU have a lot of explaining to do. They may have been responsible for losing our second most experienced back (Latham) and best lock (Vickerman), now they are playing with firing in losing our most talented attacking playmaker.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...worth-it-for-aru/story-e6frg7t6-1225905092526

But if the ARU had conducted its negotiations with Vickerman differently in 2008, he may well have remained in Australia and deferred his studies until he had completed his rugby career.

Sources close to Vickerman say the difference between what he was asking for and what the ARU offered was only about $20,000, but the reason the negotiation broke down was not because of money. It was about respect -- or the lack of it.



As a senior member of the Wallabies and one of the best players in the world in his position, Vickerman did not feel the ARU valued him sufficiently.

How much more could the Wallabies have achieved over the past 2 1/2 years if Vickerman was in the team?

If not a Bledisloe Cup or Tri-Nations victory, Australia almost certainly would have broken its run of nine straight losses to the All Blacks with Vickerman in the side. The Vickerman story is a salutary lesson for the ARU when it continues its negotiations with Cooper.

It is understood the ARU has offered Cooper only a $100,000 top-up to his Super rugby contract with Queensland Reds, which means he will probably earn about $250,000 to $270,000 a season.

 

[Scarfman]

I would just say - "our best back and best forward". And now - maybe our most important player. Then throw in the demise of the ARC. Either the ARU just doesn't have the money or they do and won't spend it, but either way, lack of money is negatively impacting Aus rugby. It feels like a 2nd tier nation!

 

[Scotty]

Well, Stirling Mortlock and George Smith might have argued those points. But certainly two integral players to us achieving success and to mentor young players coming through.