The End of Super Rugby

[Rassie]

I don't believe in expanding super rugby to accomodate SARU's mess. The next expansion of super rugby has to be the addition of an entire conference that extends the game across the entire southern hemisphere. We are not ready yet but it needs to include Argentina, USA, Canada, Japan and the Pacific Islands. The only way we could get the conferences up to six teams is if NZ and Australia added a pacific Island team each into our conference. That would be geographically plausible. The issue then becomes how do you fit three very proud rugby nations into two teams.

SANZAR would need to be abolished and replaced with a more inclusive administration.

Its not a SARU mess. Its leveling the playing field.
And consider the player numbers

 

[TOCC]

Its not a SARU mess. Its leveling the playing field.
And consider the player numbers

The last expansion was determined by commercial interests, player numbers only paint half the picture:

GDP $USD
Australia: 1.379Trillion
South Africa: 408Billion
New Zealand: 159Billion

 

[Muttonbird]

Its not about how many numbers pitch up at the ground but how many numbers switch on their TV to watch it.

In that SA rakes in most of the cash. Without us you won't have huge network deals to pay the bills.

I support the idea of leaving Super Rugby. We don't need it we can go and enjoy the CC and generate our own cash with the viewer totals.

The reason why SA wants to add a 6th team is not to get more money but that would make the competition more even.

If you’re counting, it turns out that the cumulative change in time zones in Super Rugby is 38 time-zones for South African teams (with 4 to 5 consecutive weeks spent away from home), compared to 20 time-zones and 2 to 3 consecutive weeks away for New Zealand and Australian teams.

Now add a 6th SA team now see how it evens up with the traveling.

So you are saying it should go to a Super 16 with NZ-5, AUS-5 and SA-6 (for the travel factor)?

Should NZ, the greatest rugby nation ever cut one of it's teams to help South Africa with it's travel problems? Just for the TV ratings, etc.

 

[JSRF10]

Does the Heineken Cup squabbles have anything to do with this? A while back, there were discussions of some new competition comprised of English, French and South African teams -- which makes some sense, since South Africa's only two hours ahead of GMT (but is still a hell of a lot of travel).

I suppose an Argentina-South African SANZAR competition could recruit some NH teams if they wanted to. Could see that being used to pressure the PRO12 into capitulating with Premiership demands.

The main issue in Europe is that the English sold a TV deal to a competition they don't own to sell, they've solved the qualification issues but its the TV deals that are causing the problems. I'm sure the money hungry PRL will only be too happy to jump in bed with anyone with a big wallet but I wouldn't expect the South Africans to put up with their ridiculous demands or be too happy with the cannon fodder that the majority of the English teams would be.

The French on the other hand are happy to stay in the Heineken Cup and need the Pro 12 to feature in any European competition as the big Irish sides are the biggest draw for them.

 

[TOCC]

Its not about how many numbers pitch up at the ground but how many numbers switch on their TV to watch it.

In that SA rakes in most of the cash. Without us you won't have huge network deals to pay the bills.

I support the idea of leaving Super Rugby. We don't need it we can go and enjoy the CC and generate our own cash with the viewer totals.

The reason why SA wants to add a 6th team is not to get more money but that would make the competition more even.

The deal the ARU receives for Super Rugby is proportional to what the other codes in Australia receive, SARU is by no means financially propping up Australian Rugby.

 

[Rassie]

So you are saying it should go to a Super 16 with NZ-5, AUS-5 and SA-6 (for the travel factor)?

Should NZ, the greatest rugby nation ever cut one of it's teams to help South Africa with it's travel problems? Just for the TV ratings, etc.

Why would NZ have to cut one of its teams?
If they were so great they would not need rules to be changed every time to nullify 3 quarters of the rugby world game plans now would they?

Afraid of some competition when things are evened out a bit?

 

[Rassie]

The deal the ARU receives for Super Rugby is proportional to what the other codes in Australia receive, SARU is by no means financially propping up Australian Rugby.

So there is no 33 percent Australia receives from a network deal? The highest number Australia could muster was just over 500 000 and that was for the 2011 Final. A regular Bulls Stormers game hit 800 000 to 900000 for a simple round robin game.

 

[ChargerWA]

I can't believe what I'm reading. The SA teams need to harden the fuck up. How many K's have the worst traveled side in the SA conference, the Stormers flown this year......41000kms.

The Force have travelled 68000kms.

One shipment of cement to SA straight away please.

 

[Rassie]

I can't believe what I'm reading. The SA teams need to harden the fuck up. How many K's have the worst traveled side in the SA conference, the Stormers flown this year..41000kms.

The Force have travelled 68000kms.

One shipment of cement to SA straight away please.

Not km's mate time zones. The more you cross the more jetlag hits you. Take into a count you got less than a week to recover.
You will find out on Saturday when the Brumbies play the Chiefs what crossing time zones do to you. Just like it happened to the Sharks last year and the Chiefs in 2010.

5 Weeks against 2 weeks living out a suite case no brainer IMO

 

[FrankLind]

Not km's mate time zones. The more you cross the more jetlag hits you. Take into a count you got less than a week to recover.
You will find out on Saturday when the Brumbies play the Chiefs what crossing time zones do to you. Just like it happened to the Sharks last year and the Chiefs in 2010.

5 Weeks against 2 weeks living out a suite case no brainer IMO

But the Brumbies crossed time zones and beat the Bulls.
The Crusaders cross time zones and beat the SA sides on a regular basis.
Last year, the Sharks crossed time zones and beat the Reds and then went back to SA to beat the Stormers.

Problem is, the Kings and Lions are just too shit for both of them to be allowed in.
The solution is easy. Redraw SA Super team boundaries so they cover the entire country with 5 sides. NZ and Aus manage it. Why can't SA?

Then it is a SA problem to be solved without expecting Aussie and NZ to accommodate you.

 

[Muttonbird]

Why would NZ have to cut one of its teams?
If they were so great they would not need rules to be changed every time to nullify 3 quarters of the rugby world game plans now would they?

Afraid of some competition when things are evened out a bit?

Evening out? We all play by exactly the same rules do we not? Just that some are better at it than others.

 

[AngrySeahorse]

I'm not exactly jumping for joy at the prospect of SA leaving Super Rugby but I would not be devastated either if they did leave. I'm a big fan of bringing in the Argies, US, Canada, PI's, & Japan into Super Rugby. Maybe all or maybe a couple. If I had to choose two first up I would pick Japan & PI.

 

[ChargerWA]

The real answer is the SARU need to man up and make the relegation based on CC results. Top 5 CC teams play super rugby. Make it more like champions league in Europe where the top teams go on.

 

[Bullrush]

I don't have a big issue with letting SA have another team. Why not? NZ used to have to SA's 4 and Aussies 3....comp still worked fine.

By the way Slim 293, your team just made finals rugby for the first time in like 10 years or something....whoopdy-fucken-doo. Blues were there 2 years ago and stooped your team getting there last year so leave the Blues outta your shit.

Blues 4 life and proud.....

 

[Gnostic]

That's fine except the Blues and Highlanders have played Super Rugby since day one.

Does that make it better or worse?

 

[Gnostic]

Not km's mate time zones. The more you cross the more jetlag hits you. Take into a count you got less than a week to recover.
You will find out on Saturday when the Brumbies play the Chiefs what crossing time zones do to you. Just like it happened to the Sharks last year and the Chiefs in 2010.

5 Weeks against 2 weeks living out a suite case no brainer IMO

How many time zones across SA Rassie?

Now think how many time zones across Oz. So for all the crossing time zones the SA teams do in the inter conference matches the Force have to do that plus every conference match as well. A few hours isn't much of a difference, but it adds up when you do it enough, from experience.

 

[Scotty]

The best formula would be to have a combined NZ/Aus comp that runs concurrently with the currie cup and other countries comps. We could then introduce a Heineken cup type of comp with the best teams from each comp for the 'novelty'.

Something like:

CC - 2 teams
ANZ - 3 teams
US - 2 teams
Japan - 1 team

 

[Blue]

I've always had the feeling that the Super Rugby concept had a shelf life and that it's not a matter of "if" but "when".

Expansion is madness, albeit more SA / Aus / Kiwi teams or addition of Pacific / US / Argie teams. The scheduling and travel would be nightmarish. It simply cannot work, as romantic as it sounds.

All three parties know where their bread is buttered. Every now and then rumours make the rounds that SA is thinking of leaving. Now we hear about Aus and NZ going it alone.

At some stage someone is going to call the bluff and I believe it could be to the detriment of the others in the long run.

I love it when Saffers claim the Currie Cup is enough. What a crock of shit. Our rugby will deteriorate. The gap between CC and test rugby is too big.

 

[Blue]

The real answer is the SARU need to man up and make the relegation based on CC results. Top 5 CC teams play super rugby. Make it more like champions league in Europe where the top teams go on.

You expect logic from SARU. Never, ever do that.

You don't expect it from the ARU now do you?

 

[Rassie]

But the Brumbies crossed time zones and beat the Bulls.
The Crusaders cross time zones and beat the SA sides on a regular basis.
Last year, the Sharks crossed time zones and beat the Reds and then went back to SA to beat the Stormers.

Problem is, the Kings and Lions are just too shit for both of them to be allowed in.
The solution is easy. Redraw SA Super team boundaries so they cover the entire country with 5 sides. NZ and Aus manage it. Why can't SA?

Then it is a SA problem to be solved without expecting Aussie and NZ to accommodate you.

Correct. And they are going to cross it again like the Sharks did.
The Crusaders first game where on Sea Level correctly?

How many teams in the history of Super Rugby won a knock out game in another country? Not many

2008 Tahs just traveled over the ocean and the final was close game

2009 Chiefs did the trip over the time zones to altitude. Got slaughtered
Need I explain what they did to Crusaders in the semi?

2010 Well rested Bulls side moved the game to higher altitude against a Stormers who played the week before. Nice trick. Bulls won

2011 Crusaders went to Newlands then back to play the final and lost.

2012 Sharks Aus->SA->NZ got pummeled

2013 Brumbies Aus->SA->NZ ??????