The crocodile roll ruck clear out!

[Sully]

We've all seen it. The defending player is hard on the ball in a ruck and has a good position and is too low to drive off the ball. The attacking teams player grabs his upper body and flips his body weight to the side rolling the defending teams player off the ball. It's obvious that player are being taught this technique to move players out of the ruck. But is it dangerous? Should it be outlawed before someone is seriously hurt?
I have limited video editing skills but I've added a short clip of James Horwills hamstring tear as an examle of the type of clean out I'm talking about.

 

[Sully]

Look at the 2 min mark

 

[Sully]

And we've all seen this one! From the 25 sec mark.

 

[redstragic]

I don't think it can be banned. I think that Horwell in that situation needed better technique. He was hard over the ball. But his legs were set so as to not take the impact. It happened so quick, dumb luck really.

 

[Schadenfreude]

You can ban grabbing the head though.

And you could penalize people for "collapsing the ruck"

 

[Sully]

You can ban grabbing the head though.

And you could penalize people for "collapsing the ruck"

Good point Schadenfreude. You're correct on both counts. So once again we have a technique allowed to prosper which is clearly against the laws of the game.

 

[qwerty51]

 

[TSR]

I don't think the Brumbies did anything illegal in the cleanout of Horwill. Kimlin's grip is below his armpits and he rolls him away from the ball.

Deliberate contact with the head is dangerous and I would like to see strict action taken against anyone rolling a player out by the neck or head - yellow card minimum. I have noticed it seems to be happening more and more and I cant understand why there hasn't already been action taken.

 

[Sully]

If it's a ruck didn't they pull it down?

 

[TSR]

I dont think so. They move him away from the ball and past the ruck. Their clean out actually makes the ball more available.

In general I don't have any problem with the crocodile or saddle roll technique (with the grip around the torso) as the technique is to roll someone away from the ball and therefore out of the ruck and I think that is what Kimlin (with Hooper's help) did on this occaison.

 

[TOCC]

This practice has been taught for years at all levels, i got taught it in Schoolboys and further at club level, the method of training was to have one person set over a tackle bag(simulated person) and to have the second person come in and try to roll him away.

If it's a ruck didn't they pull it down?

huh? pulling down a ruck?

 

[Sully]

huh? pulling down a ruck?

Sorry brain fade! Getting old you know.

 

[Slim 293]

Nothing in the Horwill incident.

His legs just get caught in an awkward position when he's cleared out.

 

[TheBigDog]

I don't think this technique will become the mainstream way to get rid of would be attackers at the breakdown. As mentioned earlier, when using this style the players are actually moved further away from the ball, rather than falling on top of it and being in a position to seal it off. If you're a defender and use this technique on the first man to the breakdown there is the risk that the ball will become exposed. From my experience and watching it employed in games it seems to be more of a last resort to get rid of those pesky players trying to have a dig on the edges.

There should definately be moves made though to keep any contact away from the head. The technique is actually more effective if you grab the player under the armpits and use their momentum. I remember an unfortunate incident a few years ago when a coach was teaching this method to his team and demonstrated by essentially performing a DDT (not sure if anyone has watched WWE wrestling but imagine being put into a headlock and then pulled face first towards the ground) to a player. Needless to say this resulted in severe facial and neck trauma for the player and since then the technique hasn't been employed at the club.

 

[Scarfman]

I remember an unfortunate incident a few years ago when a coach was teaching this method to his team and demonstrated by essentially performing a DDT (not sure if anyone has watched WWE wrestling but imagine being put into a headlock and then pulled face first towards the ground) to a player. Needless to say this resulted in severe facial and neck trauma for the player and since then the technique hasn't been employed at the club.

It sounds fine!

 

[Dan54]

To be fair, you can't ban everything that causes injuries, soon we won't be able to tackle around legs because someone will have a video of a leg snapping as it comes into contact with tacklers shoulder. I not saying everything goes, but Horwills damage is a fairly isolated case I imagine.z

 

[FANATIC]

ban the croc roll clean out ?
Don't be stupid.
Like everything else in contact it just needs to be done correctly.
Even when it is done properly, if it is quick it often just looks like the head is being used when it is not.
George Smith was a master at it and low and behold he even has an instructional video doing just this.

 

[Scarfman]

So, problem solved, Fanatic. Thanks! Sorry for being stupid.

 

[Dam0]

So, problem solved, Fanatic. Thanks! Sorry for being stupid.

So you are giving up your campaign? Just like that?

 

[Scarfman]

Nah, just mocking Fanatic for his self-righteousness.

I'm not out to ban the croc roll, but I'd like the law-makers to take a look at it. Obviously, grabbing anyone around the head and twisting is fucking insane and they should do some time. Grabbing around the body and rolling feels dangerous to me, too. It's a bit like Bakkies Botha's cleanouts - if you're not careful, you are just crashing your head and shoulder into a prone player's back. So, if the croc roll is legal, then care needs to be taken.

I have a second complaint with it when the player pulls someone from the side or the back of the ruck. That's either not going through the gate, or moving into an offisde position and continuing to play.