The Changing Role of the Hooker

[Hugh Jarse]

How important is the Hooker in the modern game?

Each team seems to have an overabundance of them in their squads and they are nearly always replaced with about 20 to go. Even Dingo has been consistent in using his hookers off the bench.

What do they do on the field that they are so valuable?

Hook the ball - Cheating scrumhalves have removed this role from the game. The only tightheads seem to happen as a result of front row pressure rather than skill and timing from the opposing hooker.

Throw in at the lineout - the reality is that anyone with enough practice can do this.

Push in scrums - Plenty of fatties around to do this.

Qualified Front Rower (for safety). Use spare prop, or train up loose forward for emergency purposes.

Hit it up, run, tackle, ruck, maul, general play. Plenty of other fatties, and fit fatties to do this.

In most teams this bloke seems plays a mix of tight and loose forward play. Perhaps that is why teams seem to have plenty of them and they are subbed off the bench so often. They are getting stuffed trying to be all things to all people.

Rather than have a stack of specialist Hookers in the touring squads, I'd be interested on Gaggerland's thoughts about only having one specialist and take along an extra loose forward and a prop who can be called upon when necessary.

On the field, the hookers should stop trying to be a bit of everything, and get stuffed doing so. Pace yourself and aim to last the 80. Doing so would give the coach options to bring other specialist forwards into the squad (and touring party) with more flexibility off the bench.

 

[RugbyFuture]

This post sounds mungo-esque to me

 

[RugbyFuture]

The hooked still hooks and scrum halves shouldn't be cheating, though the hooked has turned into an impact forward with the similar role to a flanker but the size and fitness of a prop. Mongrel in the tight five and manovourable

 

[Hugh Jarse]

The hooked still hooks and scrum halves shouldn't be cheating, though the hooked has turned into an impact forward with the similar role to a flanker but the size and fitness of a prop. Mongrel in the tight five and manovourable

And that is the paradox. Is it better to have a two ulility players (hookers) who can perform both roles, or two specialists who are top notch at one role, and can do a bit of the other on the side?

 

[en_force_er]

Hooker is quite arguably the MOST technical position in the pack.

Each team seems to have an overabundance of them in their squads and they are nearly always replaced with about 20 to go. Even Dingo has been consistent in using his hookers off the bench.

Wow, Dingo can't win. He underuses the bench, he overuses the bench. If you have a hooker on the bench why NOT use him?
Also with 2 hookers in the Wallaby squad that went to Saffa, how is their an overabundance of them?

What do they do on the field that they are so valuable?

Hook the ball - Cheating scrumhalves have removed this role from the game. The only tightheads seem to happen as a result of front row pressure rather than skill and timing from the opposing hooker.

Sure the art of hooking has been somewhat taken out of the game but I assure you that scrumming at hooker is vastly different to scrumming at prop and as such applying scrummaging pressure from hooker is a specialist role in itself.

Throw in at the lineout - the reality is that anyone with enough practice can do this.

I think the fact not every hooker hits 100% of the time makes it evident that whilst anyone with enough practise can throw it takes real god given skill to be an amazing thrower. It's just like sayings anyone with enough practise can kick off a tee, some people just have it and some don't.

Push in scrums - Plenty of fatties around to do this.

Qualified Front Rower (for safety). Use spare prop, or train up loose forward for emergency purposes.

As someone that has spent 2 years making the coversion from a 3 to a 2 I can tell you it isn't exactly easy. It takes time and effort to teach someone to throw well, scrum well and how to run the proper lines off a line-out ect. This is on top of the player keeping up his other skills for general play, it isn't easy. Just look at the diminished in Pek Cowan's play when he's at 2.

Hit it up, run, tackle, ruck, maul, general play. Plenty of other fatties, and fit fatties to do this.

Yes, and the more than do it the better. Is a fly-half useless because plenty of other players pass and kick?

In most teams this bloke seems plays a mix of tight and loose forward play. Perhaps that is why teams seem to have plenty of them and they are subbed off the bench so often. They are getting stuffed trying to be all things to all people.

Like I said, if there is a specialist hooker and the bench (and their usually is because it's very specialised position) then use them. Back-line and loosey positions tend to be less specialised (because many players can play more than 1) and as such leave the changes open to what you want but a hooker is always a hooker.

Rather than have a stack of specialist Hookers in the touring squads, I'd be interested on Gaggerland's thoughts about only having one specialist and take along an extra loose forward and a prop who can be called upon when necessary.

Is 3 in a 30-35 man squad a stack? You bring 3 so that if a man goes down you don't have to fly a man in to take his spot.

On the field, the hookers should stop trying to be a bit of everything, and get stuffed doing so. Pace yourself and aim to last the 80. Doing so would give the coach options to bring other specialist forwards into the squad (and touring party) with more flexibility off the bench.

Why pace yourself when you can trust your bench man? A rugger team, is made up of 22 people, not 15 plus injury subs. Also, why are other "specialised" positions important but not hooker?

I was hoping this thread would be about how hookers are increasingly becoming more loose rather than tight in their play and I was going to state how there is still a place for both types of player in the modern game.

Needless to say, I was disappointed.

 

[Blue]

And that is the paradox. Is it better to have a two ulility players (hookers) who can perform both roles, or two specialists who are top notch at one role, and can do a bit of the other on the side?

It's not. Bismarck and TPN are both capable of playing a very tight role with the T5 or mixing it with the loose forwards.

Those two are the closest to the ideal hooker for the modern game. Strong as hell to do the ugly shit but able to carry, play a cover defensive role and more. Andrew Hore isn't far off either.

A specialist hooker in the traditional sense won't get far in test rugby now.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

I think the modern day hooker, like the modern day lock, is a marvel really. I look at guys like Bismark and TPN and they really do have all the skills: big hits in defence, ball running, clean out at the break down, scrummaging, line out throwing and increasingly good hands. Some of them don't even seagull out on the wing! I think it's fantastic how they can combine the power of the set piece and tight play and still play like a fourth back rower in the loose.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

My thoughts are that the modern day hooker is actually a stumpy #8. Similar skills needed, apart from being an option for a lineout take at the back of the line.

 

[en_force_er]

In general play I think a Hooker tends to walk a line in-between a Prop and a Number 8 in terms of skills set and what they bring to the game, this of course leans more or way or the other based on the player.

However, the fact they need to be able to scrum and throw is what makes the position so specialised.

 

[Groucho]

There is a very good arithmetic reason why hookers throw into the lineout.

Firstly, 2 and 8 are the only forward positions that have just one player in the pack. If you were to use dual-player positions, you'd have to train twice as many men to throw in order to have freedom of replacements. Secondly, front row positions have mandatory reserves on the bench. Therefore, hooker is the only single-player position for which there is always a reserve. Therefore hookers throw.

Of course, backs could throw. But the only single-position backs are 9, 10 and 15. We don't want them throwing in for obvious reasons.

 

[en_force_er]

Also because they tend to be the shortest forward that you don't NEED to get to the first post-lineout ruck.

The other shortest fellows tend to be the openside flankers and you want to give those blokes as much license to be a menace as possible.

Obviously you tend to want the taller fellows lifting or jumping.

 

[RugbyFuture]

I was hoping this thread would be about how hookers are increasingly becoming more loose rather than tight

woah, wrong type of hooker....

 

[Moses]

It's not just hookers who are changing it up, can anyone remember a Loosehead Prop / Scrumhalf before Benn Robinson came along?

 

[Hartman]

A hooker is a short, fat 6 who can throw and scrum but can't jump. I'd say closer to being a 6 than an 8.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

It's not just hookers who are changing it up, can anyone remember a Loosehead Prop / Scrumhalf before Benn Robinson came along?

Or a tighthead inside centre like Benny Alexander?

 

[naza]

Most shit original post of the year so far.

Nothing personal but that's just fucking moronic.

 

[supporter]

A hooker is a short, fat 6 who can throw and scrum but can't jump. I'd say closer to being a 6 than an 8.

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Sound like my son. Tighhead prop and can play loose as well.

He is aiming to try hooker but he is 114kg - is it too heavy to be a hooker? He play a few games as hooker but can't throw but now he is practising his throwing.

Being told that hooker is an extra loose forward. What is the bench mark skills for a hooker?

 

[en_force_er]

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Sound like my son. Tighhead prop and can play loose as well.

He is aiming to try hooker but he is 114kg - is it too heavy to be a hooker? He play a few games as hooker but can't throw but now he is practising his throwing.

Being told that hooker is an extra loose forward. What is the bench mark skills for a hooker?

With that kind of frame he should just stick to propping, how old is he?

 

[supporter]

With that kind of frame he should just stick to propping, how old is he?

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16 yrs old.

 

[Hartman]

With that kind of frame he should just stick to propping, how old is he?

I believe he's said that his son is 16 before.


I'd say with him being naturally that big he should probably just stay at prop - no reason he can't be another Ben Alexander and be the team's leading tryscorer.