The case for Anthony Fainga'a to wear the Green and Gold

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Still think AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) is the best 12, while Rabbit still develops his test game. Plus the Beale/Rabbit combo at the back is very good.

AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) at 12 and either Horne or Diggers at 13.

You reckon? I just don't see AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) as having the passing game to play the kind of 12 that Deans likes. I'd sooner see Horne at 12 than him.

 

[Gnostic]

I detest the two play maker setup. Plain and simple. However, I don't mind the system the Reds used this year with QC (Quade Cooper) dropping to 15 in defence. With a predominance of kicking from many teams it offers a lot in counter attack especially if support players work hard like the reds did in most games to provide options and draw defenders. The requirement is that whoever steps up into 10 in defensive alignments needs to be able to distribute any turnover ball until QC (Quade Cooper) gets back into position. I think that Beale might be able to fulfill that role.

So how would this play with Fainga'a at 12 - better than Giteau IMO. He provides defence that Giteau doesn't and a crash ball option that Giteau doesn't. Same with the argument for JOC (James O'Connor) at 12. I also question Giteau's ability now to step back and allow QC (Quade Cooper) to be the 10 and that is a problem with having 2 playmakers.

 

[Brumbies Guy]

Take the Super Rugby final, he had no idea Carter was going to make that move for the try, and there he was - leaving an overly wide space and turning around wide-eyed when Carter made the dash.

Pretty unfair here I think. I don't have a replay handy but didn't he end up manning up on Carter from the drift defence as Carter put the kick through? What do you expect him to do differently, he can't turn around and anticipate the kick even if he knows it's on as he needs to commit to his opposite, and he isn't going to put on a Thorn trip as Carter runs through either. The safest option was for him to hold his ground and trust those around him, as he did.

.. Funny you go on to suggest Carter as an alternative based on this specific example also, as Carter would go close to having his very own montage of being beaten from a kick past the defensive line.

 

[disco]

I'd like to see Fainga'a at 12 for the Wallabies mainly for his defence as I think with Barnes out he's really the best option we have with Quade @ 10.

Deans would be a fool not to hide Quade in defence if you can keep Quade down to 4-5 tackles a game that's a win win. I don't think we need to hide him at fullback either when defending a set piece just move him to the short side wing.

My backline for the Tri-nations would be.
9.Genia 10.Cooper 11.Ioane 12.Ant Fainga'a 13.AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) 14.JOC (James O'Connor) 15.Beale

Res backs: 20.Burgess 21.Giteau 22.Turner

 

[ChargerWA]

If only Tapuai had broken through at the beginning of last season, we would be discussing him for 12. Alas, his break through came a little late.

 

[Athilnaur]

BG, the camera angle showed AF in front of Carter, then moving left - there was no one to his right to cover Carter, hence the gap Carter spotted. I don't doubt AF thought there was someone to his right, but there wasn't, and the footage shows he should have been covering Carter ready to shut him down, not shaping up to move off his pass to the next player. Had he done so and been outplayed by the chip, I'd have seen it differently - but he wasn't.

Harsh call? I don't mean it to be, the game was riddled with errors on both sides; it was an intensely pressured game, I merely mean this was an error on his part demonstrative of my concerns regarding his defensive play when that is ostensibly his strength. Would TC have done so? Who knows, personally I think there would have been less risk of it. Would he have been beaten by the ball? Probably - but Carter might not have been in a position to pick the ball up after.

 

[Ruggo]

A centre combination of Fainga'a and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) will fit in nicely. We actually need some indians amongst the chiefs in our backline. this combination foils the likes of Quade, Beale and JOC (James O'Connor) nicely. Giteau just doesn't suit the balance and I don't think he can be the indian required. JOC (James O'Connor) can stay out on the wing where he can play deep with time and space to suit him. The other player capable of fulfilling what we need is Pat McCabe though he only recently started playing the position. Ant knows exactly through experience how to play a game that compliments the Genia, Cooper combination.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

The thing is: one of those centres must be able to pass the ball, or nobody in the back three gets their hands on it. Cooper can't keep throwing the double cut every time and/or KB (Kurtley Beale) running into the line in the 12 channel. If you have a centre (10 or 12) who passes reliably and accurately, it causes doubt in the oppositions minds and means they have a harder time trying to shut down multiple angles of attack. With Ant and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) together, I'm not seeing good enough hands in the midfield.

 

[Slim 293]

I would still prefer McCabe over Fainga'a...

You still get the solid defence, but with an actual attacking threat and better skillset...

But I'd still prefer JOC (James O'Connor) or Giteau over either of them... and I think they'd be outside centre coverage anyways...

 

[Richo]

I'll not add to the debate on whether A Finger should start, but I will say I think he makes little sense off the bench. He covers 12, 13 and is much more an 80 minute workhorse than an impact player. McCabe makes a lot more sense in that regard, no offense to Fainga'a.

 

[disco]

The thing is: one of those centres must be able to pass the ball, or nobody in the back three gets their hands on it. Cooper can't keep throwing the double cut every time and/or KB (Kurtley Beale) running into the line in the 12 channel. If you have a centre (10 or 12) who passes reliably and accurately, it causes doubt in the oppositions minds and means they have a harder time trying to shut down multiple angles of attack. With Ant and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) together, I'm not seeing good enough hands in the midfield.

When we already have Genia, Quade, JOC (James O'Connor) & Beale in the backline we really don't need ball playing centres it's not like they can't do a simple draw & pass when into space & Fainga'a has already shown he has a good short passing game.

 

[light]

I'd only have Fainga'a at 12 if QC (Quade Cooper) is playing 10. If Quade goes down and either JOC (James O'Connor)/BB/Giteau are playing 10 I think we need another playmaker inside them. Cooper can single handedly play the playmaker role with a direct running centre inside him but the backup 10's don't have the vision or quick thinking and I doubt Fainga'a would read them aswell as he does Quade. Just a thought.

 

[Viking]

Has anyone thought about McCabe at 12?

He is also very solid on defence and can make a dominate tackle but unlike Fainga he actually has a good attacking game as well. He frequently breaks the line and i hear he played at 5/8 when he was younger. A solid hard player like him is the perfect compliment to Coopers flair and play-making skills. Sounds like a good option to me. Maybe even better then Fainga. The only argument i can see working against McCabe is his lack of game time at 12. All the skills are their in my view.

 

[Scotty]

It might have been mentioned a few times.....

 

[Groucho]

I believe we need a second playmaker because sides will try to (and like the Crusaders, sometimes succeed in) shutting Quade down. I'm not saying that in a cautious kind of way, in that we need a fallback option. I'm saying that it will open up opportunities for our second playmaker to cause damage. Imagine if the defence mobs Quade, and JOC (James O'Connor) is left unattended. Even Gits or Barnes. And then have Diggers, Mitchell, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) and Beale to wreak havoc outside. One thing we do have is an abundance of wide runners.

 

[Athilnaur]

Gits is a great playmaker. Was a disaster playing him with Cooper.

Hope it works out tho because I can't see the 1st XV excluding either of them.

 

[gecko]

For mine we should be mimicking the Reds style in the backs. With Quade and Cooper running the show, they've been the difference for the Reds this season. That's been built on 2 solid defenders who do the basics well, run hard and tackle in the midfield. Fainga'a and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) fit that bill.

We don't need more playmakers. We have the 2 best playmaking halves, why bring a third in. Not only that we'll have 2 playmaking ball runners in JOC (James O'Connor) and Beale. That's twice the options, why do we need a 5th option in Giteau? What other side in the world will be fielding 5 playmakers? most won't field 3. Too many cooks? Where's the balance?

McCabe is a far more high risk option, he doesn't have the same combination with Quade nor does he for mind have the same experience in that position or tackle as hard. There really aren't alot of tests left, McCabe is too big a gamble, that experiment won't happen. Either you want yet another playmaker at 12 and you go for JOC (James O'Connor) or Giteau or you want stability and physicality so you go for Fainga'a.

 

[disco]

I believe we need a second playmaker because sides will try to (and like the Crusaders, sometimes succeed in) shutting Quade down. I'm not saying that in a cautious kind of way, in that we need a fallback option. I'm saying that it will open up opportunities for our second playmaker to cause damage. Imagine if the defence mobs Quade, and JOC (James O'Connor) is left unattended. Even Gits or Barnes. And then have Diggers, Mitchell, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) and Beale to wreak havoc outside. One thing we do have is an abundance of wide runners.

The Reds don't have any other playmakers in the backline but the Wallabies will in JOC (James O'Connor) & Beale, If the AB's or Boks want to concentrate on Quade that's great news as JOC (James O'Connor) & Beale are both very comfortable leading an attack.

 

[Gnostic]

Ah Disco what positions did Hariis and Lucas play predominantly in their careers to this point?

 

[barbarian]

The inability to break the line is my key reservation with Fainga'a. Looking at the linebreak stats for S15 2011:

Ioane 16
Beale 16
Cooper 15
McCabe 12
JOC (James O'Connor) 9
Carter 8
Giteau 7
Mortlock 7
Gerrard 5
AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) 4
Fainga'a 4

And Ant played in the all-conquering Reds backline with plenty of front-foot ball. That is why I prefer McCabe if you want a hard-running IC.