The best XV of players from any school

[DaSchmooze]

I know it's a popular narrative to blame RA for the demise of Rugby in government schools, but you're barking up the wrong tree. The department itself has strict guidelines as to how the game must be delivered in schools. These are fairly standard processes - nothing out of the ordinary - but it requires someone to do it from the school and nobody is willing to do so unless they are paid.

Nobody is staying back after to school to coach
Nobody is staying back after school to supervise games
Nobody is staying back to referee
Nobody is wanting to lift a finger to help deliver a Rugby program - or ANY sport program for that matter.

The only way RA could do any of that would require a massive boost in development staff whose sole focus would be to staff these programs. We are talking about staff numbering in the 100s to get close. It's not going to happen.

Seeing boys are now able to represent SJRU and NSW Country and do so knowing that their pathway ends in the same place as GPS/CAS/ISA is wonderful. CHS and CCC have invested nothing in Rugby and fortunately, kids are no longer forced into representing them.

 

[Quick Hands]

Hmmm, I think that you're completely missing the point. The point isn't whether or not CHS or CCC schools/systems 'look after' rugby as a sport.

Boys have always been able to represent SJRU and NSW Country - those teams were in existence decades ago. The wonderful 'pathway' of which you speak isn't really delivering those kids to the same place as GPS/CAS/ISA kids at all.

If we look at the current Australian schools team (announced in the last few days), of the 23 players

12 come from NSW GPS/CAS/ISA schools
7 come from QLD GPS/independent schools
1 comes from a Victorian GPS/independent school
1 comes from an ACT public school
1 comes from a NSW state sports high school
1 comes from a Qld catholic systemic school (CCC equivalent)

If we take a step back to the 2024 Australian 18s development squad, of 28 boys

13 NSW GPS/CAS/ISA schools
5 Qld GPS/Independent schools
1 ACT independent school
5 Qld clubs (2 of those from the GPS club )
2 NSW clubs
2 ACT clubs

NSW provides just over half of each squad (a function of population size compared to Qld).

So in the largest state in Australia, which also has the largest rugby demographic in Australia 90% of the players come from a handful of private schools.

The latest statistics on school population in NSW shows
67% state schools
18% catholic schools
15% independent schools

GPS/CAS/ISA represent a small percentage of the 15% of students at independent schools in NSW

Is it really the case that you think it's feasible to run a 21st century elite professional sport (or a successful one anyway) based on boys from a tiny percentage of elite private schools, while the vast majority of the population are effectively excluded?

If the RA/NSWRU pathways (and I use the term loosely) were even moderately effective, they would be producing a much higher percentage of players in representative teams. They would be in the RA/NSWRU system and their school would be noted as going to their local state or catholic school. The truth is that there are far too few boys across Sydney and NSW who don't have the opportunity to play junior rugby at club level, and so if they don't end up at an elite private school, they end up playing something else. That fact is 100% down to decades of mismanagement and complacency by those running RA/NSWRU, and their collective lack of vision in promoting the game beyond a narrow geographic and educational demographic.

 

[DaSchmooze]

You're still laying blame at what happens in the state system at RAs feet. RA has no ability to influence what happens in a state school anymore than what they do in an independent.

Independent schools run big Rugby programs because it is in their best interests to do so. State, schools don't run big programs for the exact same reason.

 

[Mule]

the 13 PONI that aren’t going to NZ (top squad) or Fiji (ASRU):

Bennett Armistead (Reds)
Bailey Bouquaiux (Brumbies)
Dylan Bretton (Brumbies)
Toby Brial (Waratahs)
Tom Hartman (Waratahs)
Talia'uli Latukefu (Brumbies)
Marshall Le Maitre (Waratahs)
Lehopo Leota (Reds)
Jay McKenzie (Waratahs)
Charlie Poynton (Waratahs)
Treyvon Pritchard (Reds)
Manaia Tetana (Force)
Joe Walsh (Waratahs)

injured, overlooked or league….?

 

[Quick Hands]

You're still laying blame at what happens in the state system at RAs feet. RA has no ability to influence what happens in a state school anymore than what they do in an independent.

Independent schools run big Rugby programs because it is in their best interests to do so. State, schools don't run big programs for the exact same reason.

You're still missing the point. In schools where they don't run rugby programs the only place that those kids can play is in the junior club system. 67% of kids in NSW go to a state school - if there's no state school kids playing rugby it's a reflection of the fact that the junior club system is in poor shape. The only place for those 67% of kids to play is at a junior club in a system for which RA is ultimately responsible as the custodian of the game and historically through the once successful Wallabies the ultimate funder of all levels of the game.

State schools don't run programs - you are correct in that point only. What the state system does is facilitate opportunities for kids at state schools to play their chosen sports as part of the education process - sometimes at school level, but also through pathways which are based on geographical zones, leading to a CHS tournament and the selection of CHS teams. It's how all sports run in the state system, but other sports still provide representative players to State and Australian schools teams because kids in those other sports are playing their chosen sport at junior club level - which is where every other sport in Australia (except rugby and rowing) develops their athletes. Heaps of kids in heaps of sports at NSW state schools make state and Australian schools sports teams, often they form the majority regardless of whether their sport is played at school or is just a pathway sport (i.e. where CHS facilitates rep teams through trials for students who play those sports out of school)

If you don't get the nexus between what happens in state school sport (all sports not just rugby) and what happens in the junior club system in all those other sports, then I can't really explain it further.

Like many in rugby, you seem to see schools as the engine for player and coach development, whereas pretty much every other sport in Australia uses their own club system to develop athletes and coaches - regardless of what type of school they go to. In most sports, this then manifests itself into school and junior state and Australian teams where a broad spread of athletes gain selection - but they learn how to play their respective sport at their junior club, not at school.

Until rugby sheds it's 19th century English view of sport, it's almost impossible for Australia to maintain any sort of consistent level of achievement in a 21st century professional sport, dependent on a narrow demographic of private school students. And that is 100% the responsibility of RA.

 

[Quick Hands]

the 13 PONI that aren’t going to NZ (top squad) or Fiji (ASRU):

Bennett Armistead (Reds)
Bailey Bouquaiux (Brumbies)
Dylan Bretton (Brumbies)
Toby Brial (Waratahs)
Tom Hartman (Waratahs)
Talia'uli Latukefu (Brumbies)
Marshall Le Maitre (Waratahs)
Lehopo Leota (Reds)
Jay McKenzie (Waratahs)
Charlie Poynton (Waratahs)
Treyvon Pritchard (Reds)
Manaia Tetana (Force)
Joe Walsh (Waratahs)

injured, overlooked or league….?

Joe Walsh has signed with Manly Warringah rugby league to a professional deal and would now be ineligible

 

[Mule]

After witnessing first hand how Ireland/UK run their underage programs, I think it would be amazing to curate the best (spread of location, following, backing etc) entities to form a ~16 club National Rugby Union Association, that is the nexus under State (Reds, Waratahs, Brumbies, Force), and runs competitions right from Opens (Men’s, Women’s, 15s, 7s) down through u23, u21, u19, u18, u17, u16, u15 to u14…

 

[Rugger Observer]

does anyone have any predictions on who is going to be a stand out player this year in the NSW GPS comp this year?
I think Rex Bassingthwaighte will be very good for Shore this year, any thoughts?

 

[keenas]

what school?

Waverley

 

[keenas]

George Gregan (Eddies), Joe Roff (Marist), Rod Kafer (Grammar), Matt O’Connor (Marist), Andy Friend (Grammar). Plus we’ll count Campese.

Didn’t Joe Roff go to T.A.S

 

[Lindommer]

Joe went to both TAS, when his father was on the staff, and Marist College Pearce. Joe's father, Glenn, is an OB of Joeys. Folklore has it Joe was put down for Joeys but never got there.

 

[keenas]

Tks for that another funny one Angus Bell (New) his father went to Joeys living at Ryde drove past Joeys on way to New 2 + 2 =5

 

[Lindommer]

Mark Bell (ex-SJC) was on the staff at Newington, First XV rugby coach IIRC. Angus started junior school there at the time and, understandably, wanted to remain with his schoolmates for senior school.

 

[keenas]

Tks for that