The Awful Truth About The ARU's Financial Position

[waiopehu oldboy]

I used to think that, but some personal experiences tell me otherwise. The kids are not culturally aligned with rugby any more. It is not just the availability of loig, it is more than that. The schools they go to are loig schools, their mates are playing loig, they actually enjoy a simpler game. Who can really be surprised at that?

Fijians, in particular, love Sevens, they love throwing the ball around, they are not very good at 15s any more, as the game has become more and more technically demanding for the forwards. Who can be surprised at that? Samoa and Tonga ditto, to a greater or lesser extent.

IRB World Rankings - 24 February 2014
Position (last week) Member Union Rating Point
1(1) NEW ZEALAND 93.81
2(2) SOUTH AFRICA 89.34
3(3) AUSTRALIA 86.88
4(4) ENGLAND 85.46
5(6) IRELAND 80.76
6(7) WALES 80.60
7(5) FRANCE 80.56
8(8) SAMOA 77.34
9(9) ARGENTINA 76.44
10(10) SCOTLAND 76.35
11(11) FIJI 74.21
12(12) TONGA 73.21
13(14) JAPAN 72.06
14(13) ITALY 72.05
15(15) CANADA 70.75

Not sure but strongly suspect that none of the PI have ever ranked higher than currently, also that if they had access to more of their top players other than in RWC years (& if reports out of France are to be believed not necessarily then either) they'd probably be a couple of places higher.

 

[TOCC]

I'd suggest that the performance of the Pacific Island countries has more to do with the lack of central contracts, dispersed playing group and lower investment in the HPU arm of the game rather then these guys been unwilling to adopt to the modern technical adaptations of the XV's game. You only need to look around he world to see Fiji, Samoa and Tongan players all playing at the highest level in all these positions to see that they are able and willing to play XV's to that level.


There are plant of other factors as to why 7's is preferred over XV's in Fiji, 7's offers a more consistent cash flow for FRU then 15's does, whilst they are supported by the IRB to participate in the Pacific Nations Cup/Pacific Rugby Cup etc those programs still operate at a loss for the union. Fiji doesnt receive the opportunity to play against teams of enough calibre on a regular enough basis to make XV's rugby a real cash generator for the union.

Currently FRU spends over 10% of their annual budget on 7's, compared to the ARU which reportedly spends closer to 2.5% which is highlighted further since 7's actually generates a positive cash return for the FRU, whereas XV's struggles to break-even without IRB/Government grants.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Wamberal, you also portray it as a racial issue which I don't think is actually the case. It's more a social issue, that appears racial due to high concentration of PI families in these areas.

As a generalisation, a large number of the PI population in and around major cities lives in the lower socio-economic areas. Due to this their children generally attend the lesser academically performing schools, which generally results in inferior education and sure, a likely pre-disposition to a simpler game. But this is more of a product of the environment, than genetics.

I'd say if you threw some of these kids into the better academic GPS schools and threw some of those toffee-nosed kids into the lesser performing academic schools they would likely slot in pretty seamlessly.

What should be a concern is that every knucklehead bloke who is destined to at best hold down a blue collar job, that I have played rugby with (PI, Kiwi and Aussie) every season love banging on about how they wanna play league next year. If rugby really wants to be widespread in Australia it really needs to win this race to the bottom. They're all idiots, but there seems to be more idiots around than people with half a brain, so if you market yourself to the intelligent crowd, you're marketing yourself to the smallest market.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

This time last year I was in Samoa for an U15's rugby tour.
Their rugby comes from their hearts: they don't have all the fancy facilities we take for granted.
I suspect that has a huge impact on how, why and where they play the game.
They would play 20 a side if they saw a game and they wouldn't stop to fret about "the technicalities".
Sevens is a lot easier to organise.

 

[Battalion]

if you play rugby it helps if you are built like a brick shithouse.

 

[Quick Hands]

Interestingly, players of Pacific Islander descent seem to have no problem playing the 15 man game at an elite level when they are in places like Australia, NZ, France and the UK. This would seem to provide significant evidence that what is lacking is Samoa, Tonga and Fiji are facilities, coaching and the time to spend 4 or 5 days a week training. Go more than 5 mins from any of the tourist resorts and you'll see very basic housing and services. There's just no full-time professional sport in these countries.

 

[wamberal]

Interestingly, players of Pacific Islander descent seem to have no problem playing the 15 man game at an elite level when they are in places like Australia, NZ, France and the UK.

Some players, in certain positions. Of course there are PI players who can excel at rugby, that is not the point. The point that I have tried to make is that, in general, PI kids in particular enjoy running rugby, they do not enjoy tight forward stuff, they are bored by the technicalities of the game, frankly.

Let's get a bit closer to home. How many indigenous kids actually choose to play rugby?


They prefer AFL and NRL. As a sweeping generalisation, they prefer the open spaces to the confinement of rugby, with its complicated rules, emphasis on tight stuff, and penalties, penalties, penalties. Really, who can honestly say that they enjoy the technicalities of our game?


Frankly, I do not blame them. I grew up loving the game, and I prefer open running rugby. I assume that people who do not love the game (yet) also prefer open running rugby. Our three competitors all have games have far more running and open spaces than ours does. The people we have to attract are currently following one of those games.

 

[I like to watch]

I think it has more to do with socio economics than race.
Most indigenous kids grow up in areas where League or AFL are strong.
Kids play organised sports with their mates,if all their mates are playing marbles,then that's what they'll do as well.

 

[Gnostic]

It is dangerous to make broad racially/culturally based generalisations.

I would not say that the PI teams do not "like" the tight play or set peices. What they lack and have always lacked in these areas is specialist coaching. There are and always have been some wonderful players in the island teams. I see the running game of the like of Fiji as more of a case of playing to their strengths. I would also point out that the play of many of the 2nd and 3rd tier nations harks back to the old amateur era when each nations a more clearly defined "style". Professionalism has done what it does across all sports and endeavours, a successful model is found and improved and tinkered with by the top performers until output is in many ways homogenised. I love watching the likes of Georgia, Uraguay, USA and the like just for this reason along with the likes of Argentina and the PI island sides.

 

[Quick Hands]

I think you'd be surprised how many people of all races enjoy the technicalities of the game and the range of skills involved.

What people don't enjoy is slow, unimaginative sport in general.

As a life long follower of the game, I now find scrums tedious as we have this choreographed process which looks like some sort of mating ritual from a David Attenborough documentary, usually a reset or two and often followed by a collapse or some other penalty. Rarely these days do we see a scrum when the half puts the ball in, hooker strikes and half passes the ball to the 5/8. Even the commentators acknowledge that a side has achieved a reward by forcing a penalty, most of which are a lottery at best. I notice in NZ super matches, as soon as a scrum is awarded, the PA system begins blaring out 60s music and the song is usually almost finished before the scrum actually gets decided.

EDIT: 1 law change I'd like to see is the removal of the scrum option at penalties & free kicks. I noticed last night how the Waratahs have gone back to the tap and go - and doesn't it speed the game up!

 

[Inside Shoulder]

What people don't enjoy is slow, unimaginative sport in general.

Too true.
Its not just the scrums its the whole bloody thing.
If you stopped the clock for every stoppage (scrum/lineout/kick/ contact lens replacement) the game would take as long as the NFL.
But it only really matters in our crowded winter sports market place.

 

[Interested party]

Glad to see the ARU coffers are getting full so they can employ another executive on a large salary...one presumes.
They must be counting on all the $200 per team levies!
Or is Andrew Fagan coming cheap???

 

[Hugh Jarse]

How much would a GM at Rugby HQ be on?

Presumably more than the package of CEO of a Souper Rugby francise.

 

[Quick Hands]

Anyone know how much the JGC is costing?

I was talking to a boy on Monday and he is in the 15s and his whole team flew down to Melbourne and back to play a game on the weekend.

The general concept of the JGC is applauded, but is there a more cost effective way of doing it?

 

[Inside Shoulder]

The general concept of the JGC is applauded, but is there a more cost effective way of doing it?

How general are you talking in applauding it?

 

[Quick Hands]

I think that the concept of the ARU providing resources to junior players is to be applauded.

I'm not so sure about the way that they've gone about it. It seems high cost and adds another layer to an already complex and dysfunctional junior structure. The timing in February/March also seems a bit odd.

A more logical way might have been to run village club rugby in a slightly shorter season. 10 weeks instead of 14. Followed by a district rep season (I think the June State Championships are an anachronism in their timing) and maybe a JGC aligned with the NRC teams. Alternatively, one could run 10s-14s in that way (10 week village season and 4 week district rep season at the end) and run 15s and 17 through the colts and then onto JGC.

Probably some matters for another thread, by the costs involved in flying teams around the country seems out of kilter with the current financial state of the game.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Probably some matters for another thread, by the costs involved in flying teams around the country seems out of kilter with the current financial state of the game.

Defrayed by the $600 contribution i assume.
Mind you i gather they allocate $2k for meals on the bus trips as well.

 

[Quick Hands]

The $600 would defray some costs, but it sounds a very expensive operation.

 

[RugbyReg]

I reckon the Jnr Gold is a fantastic initiative. I reckon Pulver (and I'd suggest Link has been involved, as well as many others) are really starting get some great structures going. This, the NRC, the Under 20s comp, even re-emphasizing the Pacific Rugby Cup.

This should not be one of the things cut for budgetary reasons. Even if things are tight, it shouldn't be Jnr development that suffers.

 

[Quick Hands]

Correct, the initiative is to be applauded as I have said previously. My queries are:

Is it the most cost effective way to run a programme like this? i.e. is there a way to do the same without having to fly teams of 15 year olds to Melbourne and back to play a game of rugby?

Is February/March the best time to be running it? Would it run better after village and district rep rugby have finished, i.e. August/Sept?