Terrace cries "we won't play against big boys anymore"

[HG]

I too am an old boy of Ashgrove and I hope that they never join the GPS comp!

Ashgrove? :nta: HG, I though you came from Adelaide, old son.

No way they have 2 heads down there.

Good place to visit the winery's and to go fishing.

 

[tranquility]

Too all the TSS lads on here that are defiant on their academic tradition. I did a little more snooping around.
In 2007 the senior cohort got a record 11 OP1s up from the previous (and record) of 8.

In comparison to other GPS schools both male and female - it is not a nice comparison.

With the average schools getting on average 20 or so OP1s and the front runners like Sommerville and the Brisbane Grammar schools getting between 30 and 40.

Have a look around guys, all the information can be found quite easily.

But as I said, damn good rugby side.

 

[chief]

Scholarships should not be ridden from rugby. I'm all for more indigenous scholarships, for League players from the Northern Territory, or locally who have talent, and who may not be receiving the best which Northern Territory's education have to offer them. For Polynesian students, there should be a cap on players other than indigenous that receive scholarships. Say 2 full boarding scholarships, 5 half ones or something like that. I'm a firm believer that schools are for education and not for rugby, which I believe State High is currently doing and has been doing for the last decade. It is not right for a student to be repeating for rugby purposes only. For some Indigenous students, they need structure in their life, although I am in no position to call it, but one would think boarding school as well as rugby would certainly help them with that.

What some of the kids and parents have to understand, is that just because of anyone's size does not necessarily mean skill, and it doesn't take too much effort to run around the big boys. Rugby is a skilled game. Let's not have people forget.

 

[rugbywhisperer]

Too all the TSS lads on here that are defiant on their academic tradition. I did a little more snooping around.
In 2007 the senior cohort got a record 11 OP1s up from the previous (and record) of 8.
In comparison to other GPS schools both male and female - it is not a nice comparison.
With the average schools getting on average 20 or so OP1s and the front runners like Sommerville and the Brisbane Grammar schools getting between 30 and 40.
Have a look around guys, all the information can be found quite easily.
But as I said, damn good rugby side.

TSS has never exposed to be a superior academic school - it gives an all round education.
1: in 2008/7 TSS were 85/78 for OP 1- 15
2: Many of the schools with high ranking are selective schools - (now does that count as a scholarship for educatiion - talk about stacking things for a higher OP result).
Most of those offer very poor sporting optons.
personally, I am happy with the GPS - if the kids are smart they will get good education results, if they are dumb shits then they can be sport only, skip lessons and then repeat grade 12 at Keebra Park because they totally stufffed up their education experience at Nudgee or TSS.
The education experience is in the hands of the kids - not the school.
Kids study, kids pick subjects and kids wag school, .

 

[spectator]

I haven't bothered to read any of the Courier Mail stories in depth, and have to confess not having read all the posts here. I just think it is all a bit hysterical.

My opinion is that if a young boy shows potential to be excellent, in their chosen field, whether it be sport, music, academia or some other, anda scholarship is the best chance of developing that potential, then great. My boy was at one of these schools, and I have got to know a few of the 'scholarship' lads, and they are very decent young men.

One last point, and I'm sorry if it has already been covered, wasn't Digby Ioane originally a Melbourne boy who ended up at Terrace? What was the arrangement there?

 

[Damage]

Too all the TSS lads on here that are defiant on their academic tradition. I did a little more snooping around.
In 2007 the senior cohort got a record 11 OP1s up from the previous (and record) of 8.
In comparison to other GPS schools both male and female - it is not a nice comparison.
With the average schools getting on average 20 or so OP1s and the front runners like Sommerville and the Brisbane Grammar schools getting between 30 and 40.
Have a look around guys, all the information can be found quite easily.
But as I said, damn good rugby side.
[/quote]

TSS has never exposed to be a superior academic school - it gives an all round education.
1: in 2008/7 TSS were 85/78 for OP 1- 15
2: Many of the schools with high ranking are selective schools - (now does that count as a scholarship for educatiion - talk about stacking things for a higher OP result).
Most of those offer very poor sporting optons.
personally, I am happy with the GPS - if the kids are smart they will get good education results, if they are dumb shits then they can be sport only, skip lessons and then repeat grade 12 at Keebra Park because they totally stufffed up their education experience at Nudgee or TSS.
The education experience is in the hands of the kids - not the school.
Kids study, kids pick subjects and kids wag school, .


I agree with all of what has just been said!! I will name the kid as he is now in year 13... Having had a close association with Nudgee College over the last few years and in particular Cayden Matehaere over his time at Nudgee, it makes me mad that his position has changed to Nudgee did the wrong thing by him!! WHAT A LOAD OF RUBBISH... This young man was away from school more than an international airhostie is away from Oz, and he failed to hand in a large amount of his required assessment, when the mother was challenged about this she just brushed off the approaches from all staff involved, rugby staff included!!

To say that Nudgee was only concerned about this boy playing rugby is wide of the mark!! They were more than happy to love Nudgee when things were going their way, but not so much when the individual in question finally had to face up to some honesty and truth on the rugby field, the family have a lot to answer for... Not the school... I remember a boy by the name of Dom Shipperley who Cayden played with in the 2008 Premiership team, attaining an OP1 while playing 1st XV, Aussie Schoolboys and being a GPS champion track athlete... He succeed due to diligence and a family who would not accept his academics slipping. This result was not attributed to the school but to the individual!! And that is the way it is!!!

I am sorry for the long winded rant, but this family are more than happy to leech for a free ride, and get their name in lights at anyones expense!! I could not accept this to continue without factual information being in public light!!

 

[rugbywhisperer]

Welcome to the forum there damage.
Yes it is or has been a fairly one sided affair with most of the stories and in particular the stories regarding Caden and Corbin, neither of whom gave any effort to school work at all and are both very quick to blame the school.
Caden's mother shopped him around all the schools at the under 15 champs at Gundi a couple of years back, playing them all off against each other and finally taking the top bid but not until she extracted more than her pound of flesh.
The same mother was touting him again at the GC sevens. It is interesting that another school boy player at that same tournament who has been quiet, no scholarship and was overlooked for the 15 and 16 teams is now on Michael O'Connors preferred list, way ahead of caden.
As I said many posts ago, a player now in his death throes as a rugby player trying to ressurect a dying career.

 

[chief]

I usually avoid talking about school boy players. But Cayden has bought this on himself, Cayden it seems, has relied all on his schooling that he will have a career within rugby. People caught up to Cayden's skill level within a year. Cayden no longer became an asset, and he couldn't believe it. The proof that Nudgee do care about education and discipline is really quite evident by Cayden's selection in the 2nd XV, where he didn't even dominate the team. Disappointing to see that he is still looking for anyone to blame.

 

[scrubber]

Didn't terrace have a great young kid named Gill last year - tough tough uncompromising etc etc - maybe the Headmaster should screen HIS boys to make sure they are not TOOOOO agressive and tackle the other boys toooo often. Maybe bring back the weight divisions ha ha and a psch. test to ensure that only "quiet" and nerdy children play the game of rugby. At halftime we could employ some geography questions so that the boys don't focus too much on the next 30 minutes of rough and tough.

Grow up Terrace !!!!!

 

[RugbyReg]

Gill is tiny though.

Nice try.

 

[scrubber]

Gill is tiny though.

Nice try.

Noddy,
He is a great kid, great footy player, heard also very high academic achiever and agree is small but give him a couple of years in the Academy paddock and he will be right up there.
Was only being silly about Terrace - great school etc etc just thought Head's comments were crazy but sure has opened debate.

Although most of the recipients knowingly or unknowingly (at this stage of their lives) will have their lives enhanced because of the opportunities presented. Not only footy but as young men becoming more worthwhile members of society(many of them would have been anyway but am sure some others would/will benefit greatly)

 

[Geronimo]

Just got off the phone to a mate (ex-Terrace) who went to Nudgee on the week-end and he says that the Terrace Nudgee game was amateurs v Professionals. Said Nudgee were too big, too strong, too good. The Terrace boys put in solid games but were outplayed. The terrace team were premiership winners in the underage years and from what he says may struggle to be competitive this year. Terrace had three or four out but so did Nudgee.

 

[rugbyfreak]

Saw a couple of games at Nudgee, funny set up, 2 x 13 min halves, and then 50 min till the next game. To me it looked like CHurchie didn't send their 1st XV squad? Can anyone confirm/deny? Can't say that there was any outstanding performances. Lots of kicking, even attempted field goals! The TSS/Nudgee game seemed the most entertaining, State High v TSS wasn't a great spectacle, I think State High just shaded TSS. Then again they were only trials. Are there any more trails in Brisbane next weekend?

 

[rugbywhisperer]

All schools have trials.

Churchie v TSS at Churchie this week
State High v TSS at TSS on the 1st May

 

[Karl]

This may be dredging up an old thread. If thats a no no, I apologise. I am a bit of a club rugby noob and about to have boys go into the Brisbane GPS competition.

That GPS Rugby now has momentum and an entrenched position as the bastion of junior rugby development in Qld does not make that situation right or good.

I went to TSS, finished in the late 80's, played Rugby (just for the thirds with occasional games in the seconds through injury or illness), took no notice of the Brisbane GPS Rugby scene other than playing the games on a Saturday, never knew much about club rugby at all because other than school sport, I was a member at Northcliffe SLSC from Nippers. Now I have 2 boys in the BJRU (u8 and u10), private school just around the corner and it's a hell of a learning curve. A few of the eldest boy's Brother's team mates have started at private schools and I have been hearing the stories from a couple of the Dad's (all ex-Brisbane private school boys themselves) and it'd be amusing if it wasn't mildly disturbing. To say that it has become very full-on in the last couple decades could be the understatement of the century.

The 13/4/10 @6.31pm comment of Rugby Whisperer was enlightening for a couple of reasons - it's probably true and it reveals the deeply entrenched nature of the misplaced priority Rugby has achieved in the private school system in SE Queensland. Don't get me wrong, I love Rugby, I played Rugby at School, at Uni for Kings College and in a few "Corporate" teams later, my boys both play and are passionate about it and my eldest is even pretty bloody good, one of the best forwards at Brothers in the u10 competition. But when I assess schools I look at their OP's, their academic programs, their industry links and the quality of the teaching staff and resources, not last years premiership table. I mean, obsessive much? I'm sure very few parents really have that as a big priority but there must be at least the perception of demand from the parents for strong Rugby performance or we wouldn't see the things we are seeing. There is a point at which some well managed merits based scholarships for kids with exceptional ability in sport turns into an American style sports development industry driven by a very questionable and misplaced concept of prestige. What I see and hear is in that horribly grey area and heading in the wrong direction at the behest of some influential Type A parents, school program directors who's resource allocations and personal importance benefit from the attention and school administrators who have been tricked into believing the hype or browbeaten and blackmailed into compliance. It all just has the appearance of being well out of hand at this point and accelerating under it's own mass.

TSS has always had a Rugby/Rowing/Swimmming/Athletics culture. Academics were for the nerds. It was the same in the late 80's and not much has changed. Prefects etc were all sports guys and so were all of the Senior Promotions in the Army Cadet Unit. If you weren't in a First something, you were invisible in a school leadership sense. The Director of Studies had been asleep at the wheel for a decade and was 20 years past the age at which he should have been put out to pasture but when a House is named after you, I guess you're tenured. They never really seem to have managed to turn that around very effectively. The Brisbane private schools seem to be able to recruit like mad for Rugby while churning out enough OP1's however. They are very good at projecting the appearance of being just as focussed on academic achievement as sporting prowess, and maybe they are, but I wonder how the boys feel, particularly those with some rugby ability.

So what's the deal? Which are the Brisbane Schools private schools where they have a decent balance and aren't Rugby/Sports mentallists?

 

[Karl]

TSS has never exposed to be a superior academic school - it gives an all round education.
1: in 2008/7 TSS were 85/78 for OP 1- 15
2: Many of the schools with high ranking are selective schools - (now does that count as a scholarship for educatiion - talk about stacking things for a higher OP result).
Most of those offer very poor sporting optons.
personally, I am happy with the GPS - if the kids are smart they will get good education results, if they are dumb shits then they can be sport only, skip lessons and then repeat grade 12 at Keebra Park because they totally stufffed up their education experience at Nudgee or TSS.
The education experience is in the hands of the kids - not the school.
Kids study, kids pick subjects and kids wag school, .

I have to take issue with a couple of these statements. The education experience is not in the hands of the School? It's all the kids? I mean, really, are you serious? The School - as well as the Parents - have a HUGE impact on educational outcomes for our kids and to try to assert otherwise is patently ridiculous.

And last time I checked, a School was primarily about Education, not Sport. If a kid struggles academically either because of a lack of motivation or limited ability, the first priority should be on getthign that child achieving at the highest possible level in the classroom before we say "oh well, at least he's good at rugby". Sport and other co-curricular activities are supposed to complement the core Academic Programs and provide balance etc - they are not supposed to be center stage for the benefit of a few elite athletes, who frankly may or may not continue to look so elite once they get into larger ponds with bigger fish. What about getting the kids ready for University or Business or Trades - all of which require continued learning? The vast majority of these kids may play rugby or other sports in what is best described as amateur or recreational capacities going forward, if they continue at all after school. Some may go on to the Super Rugby or State and National Selection, but it won't be very many at all. We should encourage and nurture all the abilities our kids demonstrate, but the focus at school should be school work. Turning these very expensive schools into defacto junior institutes for rugby development isn't really their highest and best use.

 

[Dark Shark]

Karl

You raise a couple of good points and questions above. I believe it is hard for anyone to make a sweeping judgement across all the schools in Brisbane as they will have extremely limited direct experience except with possibly one or two schools. I will say (and you can call me an optimist) those that are leading a school only want the best for their students so that they have the ability to maximise their progress in the field they choose when they depart the school. If that is not happening, I would say that there would eventually be forcible changes at the school leadership level.

You describe how the Brisbane GPS rugby scene seems to have become “very full-on” in the last couple of decades. I could also use that expression. I was at a Brisbane GPS school in the mid 80’s and enjoyed playing in and also being a spectator in the rugby competition. A couple of years ago, a mate of mine from school and I decided to catch our first Brisbane GPS school game in around 20 years. At half time we both looked at each other and said “Wow!” The standard of rugby was extraordinary. We thought the standard was higher than some of the stuff we were seeing dished out by the Qld Reds (pre Link) at the time. The skills, physical contact and game management were light years away from what we had experienced 20 to 25 years before. We even estimated that the players would have been, on average, 20% bigger (by weight) than in “our day”. My mate and I asked ourselves what had caused this change and it was pretty obvious. Twenty years before we were playing for “beers” after the game when we got to club rugby and hopefully higher honours, which was no more than being given a rep jersey to keep as a reward. These days many of the boys in these teams are playing or positioning themselves for a shot at six figure contracts (in medium to longer term).

There is also an element of coaches using their performance in the school competition to launch themselves as a professional coach with franchises in Australia and overseas. Sometimes this can then evolve into a “whatever it takes” to ensure reputations are made, CV’s enhanced etc which further boosts / strengthens the competitive levels in this school competition.

So the evolution in the standard and the attitude of school rugby reflects the changes at the top end of the game becoming professional. I am not saying this is right or wrong, but stating what I believe are the fundamental changes to the Brisbane GPS competition between generations.

I don’t believe that the recruitment of students for a sports programme would or should have an influence over the performance of the year group at an academic level. The reality is that even at the most “aggressive” schools the number of students recruited would number less than 5% of the year. Not enough, I believe, to have a material effect on the overall results of a year group.

Finally, to get to the question you pose, “Which are the Brisbane Schools private schools where they have a decent balance and aren't Rugby/Sports mentallists?”.

It has been said to me, on more than one occasion by persons connected with different schools, that the success of the sports programmes are used as a marketing tool for the school to attract more students. I have no doubt this reason is true. However, I believe that it is ironic that most of the schools that invest so much time and resources into ensuring they have the strongest sports (rugby) programmes are usually the same ones you also see advertising on billboards, in magazines and on radio for new enrolments because they are no where near reaching 100% intake.

In Brisbane, possibly a better indicator or a reflection on the question of schools that have a “decent balance” are those schools (and not just GPS schools) that generate their enrolments only from “word of mouth” (the strongest promotional medium available) from parents and students that have had the experience. You will also usually find those schools are also oversubscribed.

 

[Bowside]

Finally, to get to the question you pose, “Which are the Brisbane Schools private schools where they have a decent balance and aren't Rugby/Sports mentallists?”.

It has been said to me, on more than one occasion by persons connected with different schools, that the success of the sports programmes are used as a marketing tool for the school to attract more students. I have no doubt this reason is true. However, I believe that it is ironic that most of the schools that invest so much time and resources into ensuring they have the strongest sports (rugby) programmes are usually the same ones you also see advertising on billboards, in magazines and on radio for new enrolments because they are no where near reaching 100% intake.

You hit the nail on the head there. The schools that have the right balance are more often than not the ones that are turning kids away due to such high enrolments. They dont need to impress prospective parents because they already a good enough 'reputation'.

I don’t believe that the recruitment of students for a sports programme would or should have an influence over the performance of the year group at an academic level. The reality is that even at the most “aggressive” schools the number of students recruited would number less than 5% of the year. Not enough, I believe, to have a material effect on the overall results of a year group.

I think you underestimate the recruitment of some schools. I think recruiting for sport does have some effect on academic performance, but the full extent of such effect is not fully evident in the results as many blokes are pushed into doing a rank rather than an OP.

 

[Jets]

I will argue against the use of sport as a recruitment tool. The success of school 1st teams in my view is for Old Boys to be able to reminisce about the good old days and relive their sporting dreams through players that are well beyond them in terms of talent and physical development.

From my understanding Old Boys tend to assist these programs financially and have active involvement in them too. It is a way of keeping them involved in an institution that had a huge effect on them through a formative stage of their development.

Karl in terms of finding a school for your boys I would recommend talking to a few that you are interested in and getting a feel for the place. Any school worth going to will allow you access to a range of people involved (teachers, students etc..). You know better that anyone what you children are like and find the school that will provide them with the most opportunities in life.

 

[Karl]

Good points and suggestions guys.