Ted think losses are Match Fixing

[Dam0]

I started writing a long reply but then couldn't be bothered. According to you guys, Henry is a terrible coach, a 'grubby' person and an all-round low-life. How he's been able to achieve so much and still keep the respect of the players and his management team is just bizzare.

Good call. At some point you just have to walk away (even it you can't stop shaking your head).

 

[teach]

Robbie Deans would have been a far better AB coach. Look how well he has done with Australia. What has Ted done for us lately?

 

[I like to watch]

Maybe it's just a different perspective, I don't think he is all bad. just that he is not perfect.
But then I'm an Aussie, we don't automatically think of conspiracy theories every time we lose a game.
After all no ref ever needed to match fix against us, no waitress ever tried to poison the team.
I can't think of the other conspiracies when you guys did not win Bill.
But I'm sure they will come to me later.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=10823786

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

I started writing a long reply but then couldn't be bothered. According to you guys, Henry is a terrible coach, a 'grubby' person and an all-round low-life. How he's been able to achieve so much and still keep the respect of the players and his management team is just bizzare.

Who has said or implied any of those things? A lot of people respect him and the job he did with the All Blacks, myself included. Like most people, however, he has aspects of his personality that not everyone likes.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=10823786

The comment thread in that article is revealing.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

The comment thread in that article is revealing.

True - there seems to be division about him even in the land of the long white cloud....and they're still feeling the pain of the 2007 exit...oh yeah, and Bullrush seems to be crusading for ted in more than one country!

 

[Bullrush]

Who has said or implied any of those things? A lot of people respect him and the job he did with the All Blacks, myself included. Like most people, however, he has aspects of his personality that not everyone likes.

Two posters in particular have said or implied those things...

He had a fleeting thought that it may have been, then dismissed it.
That is not his feelings on the matter.
The game has given him a fucking good living for many years, he was bestowed a knighthood from his association with the game.
Then he shits on the game to earn a couple of extra bucks..

BTW I don''t rate him in any event, he has a 50% winning % in RWC and turned up to both events with the best team each time.
I also saw him in a doco on the Lions tour, he was the cause of their defeats, they would have been better off with no head coach than with him on that tour.

Henry had a good record with the Blues, but didn't he have some all time greats in that side.
Internationally he had a great start with the Welsh, but it turned to shit.The Lions he was hapless/hopeless.
I hope you enjoy his book, but he is a JAFA to me.

he succeeded despite himself, not because of it.

Yep: supports my view. Tub thumping was dead long before he found out..and he had to be told it was dead.
And I repeat: has he ever done an analysis of AB illegalities? Blaming refs or sport betting is arrogant because it assumes an entitlement to win.

Ones enough - particularly in that context.plus I seem to remember some criticism of the ref(s) in the documentary.
To the extent that he is blaming depression (although he implies that's not a real man's condition by reference to Kirwan) he has my sympathy and there is no doubt that can cloud judgment and compromise dealings with human beings.
I am intrigued by his victim mentality too: lost his seats at Eden Park, his parking spot there, the "Henry Rule" in relation to coaching and the match fixing...

What good comes from this apart from selling some books?
Many might think he is the ants pants, I just reckon it is a grubby act.

And yes, I will defend him in both countries because that game is a complete anomoly in terms of the stats and the reffing.

We lost to better teams on the day in 1995, 1999 and 2003. Gregor Paul and Wynne Gray can maintain that line for 2007 if they want but I don't see why Graham Henry can't ask if there is a protocol or procedure for examining games like this. Gregor Paul thinks that match-fixing in rugby is "so obviously an outlandish and baseless notion". He's welcome to that opinion.

Kiwis big concern is that they don't want to be seen as 'poor losers' or as having 'sour grapes'. And some just like to hate on Henry. Me - I think the reffing was absolute shit that day but we've had to suck it up and take it on the chin. We've endured all the choker jokes and tags and names for YEARS - I couldn't care less if the rest of the world thinks we're poor losers over this.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Two posters in particular have said or implied those things.

Crap - I have raised issues about his personality as your quotes show. I know that for many kiwis rugby is their personality and/or that a person's personality is judged by their views on rugby (neither of which is a criticism) so perhaps that is where our perspectives differ.
None of what I have said reflects my view about his coaching ability: I dont have enough information to justify in this forum my view about that.
2007 was not your first choke and nor was it your last - 2011 had you turning blue....and youve still only ever won it at home.
Also you lost to a better team in 1991, by the way.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Bullrush, I like and respect you mate, but that looks like flimsy evidence to me. You're defending your man and that's cool. I defend Rod MacQueen to the absolute hilt too.

 

[Dam0]

2007 was not your first choke and nor was it your last - 2011 had you turning blue..and youve still only ever won it at home.
Also you lost to a better team in 1991, by the way.

Is this kind of stuff really necessary? Just gotta get that gratuitous jab in there don't you? Just can't help yourself?

And I think the result in 1991 is implied, obviously.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

And I think the result in 1991 is implied, obviously.

i wondered about that, given the tone of the thread I thought (for a fleeting moment) that there might have been some suggestion that the game was fixed.....I was unable to see any other reason for it being omitted...and then of course we had that unlikely victory in the semi final.....and the deliberate knock down by Campo in the final....the whole thing was fixed.....

 

[Bullrush]

Crap - I have raised issues about his personality as your quotes show. I know that for many kiwis rugby is their personality and/or that a person's personality is judged by their views on rugby (neither of which is a criticism) so perhaps that is where our perspectives differ.
None of what I have said reflects my view about his coaching ability: I dont have enough information to justify in this forum my view about that.
2007 was not your first choke and nor was it your last - 2011 had you turning blue..and youve still only ever won it at home.
Also you lost to a better team in 1991, by the way.

I was asked who had implied certain things about Henry. You implied those things in your comments. You're quite allowed to have those opinions.

Sorry, I obviously took your comments the wrong way about his coaching ability eg. 'he succeeded despite himself, not because of it'. My bad.

Sorry again - I forgot about 1991. Again, happy to say the better team won then as well

Bullrush, I like and respect you mate, but that looks like flimsy evidence to me. You're defending your man and that's cool. I defend Rod MacQueen to the absolute hilt too.

I like and respect you too TBH. I'm not saying that evidence for match-fixing is rock-solid - I don't actually think that game was fixed. I think Henry's point is that there is no current process the IRB follows when such one-sided contests (in terms of reffing judgements) occur. To me, it doesn't have to happen in the public domain but what's wrong with having some sort of protocols that can be followed in games like this? The reffing was shit and we lost. I just think it's unrealistic to to say that the reffing had little or no bearing on the result. Just my opinion.

Does Rod MacQueen need defending??

 

[Dam0]

i wondered about that, given the tone of the thread I thought (for a fleeting moment) that there might have been some suggestion that the game was fixed...I was unable to see any other reason for it being omitted.and then of course we had that unlikely victory in the semi final...and the deliberate knock down by Campo in the final..the whole thing was fixed...

Nah, in 1991 we were unquestionably worse than the Wallabies. A case of holding on to players too long, picking co-coaches that refused to talk to each other, and some inept execution. Doubt you would find anyone in NZ who has any excuses about that one. Or 1999 or 2003 really. 1995 and 2007, I think there are legitimate reasons for us to scratch our heads and wonder, which appears to be exactly what has happened.

 

[Dan54]

I think IS you best to just knock it on head mate ,you starting to get ridiculous, who has talked about campo, and ABs and wallanies didn't even play in final.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

I like and respect you too TBH. I'm not saying that evidence for match-fixing is rock-solid - I don't actually think that game was fixed. I think Henry's point is that there is no current process the IRB follows when such one-sided contests (in terms of reffing judgements) occur. To me, it doesn't have to happen in the public domain but what's wrong with having some sort of protocols that can be followed in games like this? The reffing was shit and we lost. I just think it's unrealistic to to say that the reffing had little or no bearing on the result. Just my opinion.

Does Rod MacQueen need defending??

Fair enough. As for the MacQueen thing, just drawing the comparison between a coach I greatly admire and the one you do also.

 

[I like to watch]

Your not a fan of irony Dan?
I though it was pretty funny.

 

[Dan54]

Yep at times IL, but for irony to work you have to use proper facts for them to be funny.

 

[gel]

What would be the reason for the match fixing to take place though?

 

[I like to watch]

Pretty much just to fuck up Ted's legacy to the AB's.
Maybe to make a few bucks on the punt on the way through as well.