Team of the Spring Tour

[Scarfman]

JB, MR includes the ABs, OK?

 

[Epi]

No I watched the same as everybody else apart from you mr Buchanan... (bearing in mind I didn't include the weekday matches)

I think he mean the Wallabies finished with 2 wins, a draw and a loss. Not 2 losses.

 

[MajorlyRagerly]

Sorry - didn't mean to sound facetious back there, I was honestly a bit confused. JB, scarfman is right, I am including the Tokyo match.

 

[rugbywhisperer]

1. Benn Robinson (Australia)
2. William Servat (France)
3. Martin Castrogiovanni (Italy) Ben Alexander (Australia)
4. James Horwill (Australia)
5. Victor Matfield (South Africka)
6. Rocky Elsom (Australia)
7. David Pocock (Australia)
8. Wycliff Paul (Australia)
9. Will Genia (Australia)
10. Dan Carter (New Zealand)
11. Peter Hynes (Australia)
12. Jauzion (France)
13. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) (Australia)
14. Vincent Clerc (France)
15. Mils Muliaina (New Zealand)

OK – due to the naysayers I have some explanations.
1: The Aussie front row is not very close to the best there is and i would find it very hard not to have out 2 props. Both hookers have performed with the front row.
2: Horwill has shown great consistency and in particular the lineout.
3: Palu – great performances all throughout the tour
4: Pocock above McCheat anyday as he is now doing nearly what McCheat achieves WITHOUT cheating.
5:Genia – above all has shown he is the next big thing in 9’s
6: I have to put AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) at 13 as he has shown when he plays there he is unsurpassed (if only Robbie McDingo could see that)
7: Hynes, consistent – didn’t make too many glaring errors and settled his game well. The one thing I like about the Aussie wingers they don't play like they just jumped out of a box of crackers. Their game is not so razzamadaz as solid and actually contributes to the team overall.

I still don’t think we have what I would call 2 very good wingers. Still seeking that next Joe Roff or Benn Tune but Hynes showed consistency above others. Close finish also for Ioine. If Goiteau wore a 12 he would be in the team as well. And no Shane Williams is not a good solid winger - to me all flash little substance - great finisher but that's all. In SH rugby we need more versatile stock and that also benefits us when we play the stilted choreographed players ofthe NH.

If I never see Mitchell or JOC (James O'Connor) in Wallaby colors again I will sleep in peace.

Aus have gone from a team that would have had no credible representations in such a team a year ago to one that can honestly bost some very good performers and some who are seriously knocking on the door.
Now all we have to do is get the team to perform as a team and sort out the 10/12 fiasco.

 

[Viking]

1. Benn Robinson (Australia)
2. William Servat (France)
3. Ben Alexander (Australia)
4. Sebastion Chabal (France)
5. Paul O'Connell (Ireland)
6. Rocky Elsom (Australia)
7. David Pocock (Australia)
8. Wycliff Palu (Australia)
9. Will Genia (Australia)
10. Dan Carter (New Zealand)
11. Sitiveni Sivivatu (New Zealand)
12. Jauzion (France)
13. Conrad Smith (New Zealand)
14. Vincent Clerc (France)
15. Mils Muliaina (New Zealand)

Lots of Aussie forwards because they were amazing, Especially the props, Palu def the Number 8 of the tour was smashing though everything. Pocock was outstanding MOTM performance every game. Sivivatu n conrad i also thought stood out. Kearny close to mils, Cowen close to genia, O'driscal not to bad either but I thought conrad was better. Not too sure why ppl are putting hynes in there, thought there was better wingers, shane williams etc.

 

[James Buchanan]

Sorry - didn't mean to sound facetious back there, I was honestly a bit confused. JB, scarfman is right, I am including the Tokyo match.

All good mate :thumb

I didn't really consider the ABs as part of the tour as much. More something in between.

Even so, it was worth noting that we did get up for two wins, even if one of them was only against England.

And despite the scoreboard, there has been some very impressive performances by some of the Wallabies, particularly in the pack. With a less dysfunctional backline, I suspect that would have been 4 wins (plus one loss to the ABs - I don't think we're quite there yet.)

 

[MajorlyRagerly]

No problems... but this thread has now diverged out of control with some of it's selection... RW - 9 Wallabies in the EOYT team? You have to be joking. I guess I now know how alot of you felt previous over TSF .... some very very yellow tinted glasses here.

I suspect that if these teams were to come out pre the Welsh match, where the Wallabies finally clicked, they would be very different.

Pocock over McCaw because he's as good as Richie without cheating? Good god, now I've read it all. I don't know why there is so much bitterness of Richie on this site as you've had somebody who most fans (including myself) would consider his equal in George Smith over the years playing a simliar sort of game.

 

[Ash]

I would still pick McCaw in my team. Pocock was excellent in the games he played, but so was McCaw, and McCaw had more time on the park and just shades Pocock.

Wouldn't pick Hynes. He's still struggling on attack. And I will sit on the fence with some of my selections too.

15 Mils Muliaina
14 Corey Jane / Vincent Clerc
13 BOD / Conrad Smith
12 ??? No clue, really.
11 Sivivatu
10 Dan Carter
9 Will Genia (that's my token Aus bias, ok?)
8 ??? No clue here too. Palu close, but I didn't watch enough of the other 8s to choose.
7 Richie McCaw (by not too much)
6 ??? Yet another position where I have no clue.
5 Paul O'Connell
4 ???
3 Castrogiovanni (I am cheating a bit and including his midweek game vs the Boks) (am close to selecting Alexander too)
2 ???
1 Benn Robinson

I don't understand the selection of Chabal. To be honest, I think I needed to have seen the whole of a few more games as well (instead of a few peices of replays) to make an informed decision. I openly admit to, for example, not watching 1 second of England v Argentina.

 

[cyclopath]

No problems... but this thread has now diverged out of control with some of it's selection... RW - 9 Wallabies in the EOYT team? You have to be joking. I guess I now know how alot of you felt previous over TSF .... some very very yellow tinted glasses here.

I suspect that if these teams were to come out pre the Welsh match, where the Wallabies finally clicked, they would be very different.

Pocock over McCaw because he's as good as Richie without cheating? Good god, now I've read it all. I don't know why there is so much bitterness of Richie on this site as you've had somebody who most fans (including myself) would consider his equal in George Smith over the years playing a simliar sort of game.

It's the ultimate sign of respect to Richie - he is too bloody good, so he must be condmened as a cheat. I'd still have him, I must say.
I would argue against any Aus backs at all being there, but I think the props, Pocock and Palu have cases based on EOYT form, not form earlier in the year, which is where some posters here and elsewhere seem to be getting hung up. Of those, Robinson is the form LHP at the very moment I think, all bias aside.
Slightly OT, MR , but what do you think about Richie getting the IRB player of the year? This, of all years, I thought it a bit odd, whereas he clearly has been other years and not got the nod? I would ask over on TSF but, you know, I couldn't be bothered dealing with the predictably rabid responses from the usual suspects.

 

[rugbywhisperer]

No problems... but this thread has now diverged out of control with some of it's selection... RW - 9 Wallabies in the EOYT team? You have to be joking. I guess I now know how alot of you felt previous over TSF .... some very very yellow tinted glasses here.
I suspect that if these teams were to come out pre the Welsh match, where the Wallabies finally clicked, they would be very different.
Pocock over McCaw because he's as good as Richie without cheating? Good god, now I've read it all. I don't know why there is so much bitterness of Richie on this site as you've had somebody who most fans (including myself) would consider his equal in George Smith over the years playing a simliar sort of game.

Terribly sorry there - last time I looked this was a forum for individual opinion. Next time I state my opinion of players I prefer over those I don't prefer I will be sure to consult you first - well right after I get permission from 'she who must be obeyed', so really you are right down my list of people I will heed.

My opinion is based on the fac that I do see the Aussie players on the rise against the oldies from NZ. Why is it the kiwis really do seem to get their noses out of joint every time someone not only questions the almighty integrity of Captain McCheat but dares to omit him from the list of most divine leaders and players of all time.

 

[MajorlyRagerly]

Terribly sorry there - last time I looked this was a forum for individual opinion. Next time I state my opinion of players I prefer over those I don't prefer I will be sure to consult you first - well right after I get permission from 'she who must be obeyed', so really you are right down my list of people I will heed.

My opinion is based on the fac that I do see the Aussie players on the rise against the oldies from NZ. Why is it the kiwis really do seem to get their noses out of joint every time someone not only questions the almighty integrity of Captain McCheat but dares to omit him from the list of most divine leaders and players of all time.

Whoa chap - take a step back there. I am just genuinly surprised that you guys are very happy with your performances to put so many in the team. After the EOYT, we all generally have a good guage of where things at for all countires, so after what I thought you guys would view as a poor EYT, I'm surprised withhow happy you are.

My nose isn't out of joint, I just find your statement regarding Pocock/McCaw truly laughable! However, please feel free to pigeon hole me the same as "all other kiwi's" if you like and I'll return the favour & assume you and all other Aussies think the same as Phil Kearns.

Cyclopath - it's truly a joke. Brussow outplayed him in the first 2 tests in SA for a start. Make no mistake, I think McCaw is truly a fantastic player, but 2009 wasn't the year for him. I can't believe it's not Fourie Du Preez (I dislike BOD so can't consider him, but I respect many others think it should have been him and they may well have a point)

 

[Pfitzy]

1. Benn Robinson

After that, pretty much nothing else matters. What a diamond that kid is - I TOLD YERS!!! I BLOODY TOLD YERS!

 

[barbarian]

I'm with you here MR. The only Aussies I think deserve to be in an EOYT team are Robinson and Genia. For the record, my team is:

1. Robinson
2. Servat
3. Castrogiovanni
4. O'Connell
5. Thorn
6. Kaino (no real standouts though)
7. Brussow
8. Heaslip
9. Genia
10. Carter
11. Sivivatu
12. Jauzion
13. Smith
14. Clerc
15. Kearney

And RW, you are wearing gold-tinted specs. I am not denying you your opinion, just saying it's wrong

 

[rugbywhisperer]

As I said, I look past what i deem to be the razamataz of the back and look for substance and what they really do.
As for forwards, I cannot name a player or players who gain their name and credo from continual perceived superiority due to continual illegal play.
For me McCaw, Thorn and Botha while being fantastic players rule themselves illegible.

And, I do not believe Australia have too many huge problems.
To me we have 2.
Firstly, a massive concern at 10 and therefore 12 whenever Barnes is injured which is appearing to be habitual and secondly our ability to play for 80 mins.
The second one alone could have had incredible results in many of this years games considering we lost how many games to NZ and SA after leading well into the second half.
Australia and their players are far better than most give credit.

 

[Ash]

McCaw's up and down 3N this year is why I was amazed he got the award this year as well. McCaw was so very, very flat those few 3N games that I was wondering if he'd get dropped - but in NZ for opensides, there's McCaw and...well...daylight. I thought he might have won last year, though.

The selections for the IRB player of the year are...interesting.

Personally, for the Nov team I wouldn't even consider any Australian backs other than Genia, and perhaps AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) but he's eclipsed by Muliaina. The rest simply didn't consistently stand out (in a good way), and for teams like this you want to select someone who stands out <edit> in most, if not all, of the games they played.

If anyone selects Gits at 10, I want to shoot them myself. Gits mainly looked good, IMHO, when he game into second receiver.

Regarding the Australian forwards, outside of the lineout they dominated every game they played - apart from the Tokyo test, where they were the better in the first half, but the All Blacks came back and washed them out in the second. The lineout they recovered to get parity. The ruck play from the Wallabies throughout November was very improved over their Tri-Nations effort.

From the Wallaby pack (for November only), I'd consider Pocock as a selection - he was very good against NZ, Ireland and Wales - all the games he started. But McCaw was fantastic, and played one extra game, having only skipped the Italy test. Benn Robinson would be a definite in my side (I'm curious to see if the Kiwis at TSF will vote him over Woodcock in their team of the year). I'd also consider Alexander and Palu.

Happy, though? I consider the Scotland game an aberration. We dominated their forwards on a wet and rainy game, but bombed 3 tries over or right before the line, missed 2 extremely easy penalties and a drop goal from right in front. Most of the Scottish forwards, and most of the backs, were outplayed. Yet the Scots had a heroic defensive effort and hung in. Full credit to them. These games happen. I don't think the Scottish result was such a disaster that many consider to be, watching the game you always had the impression that the Wallabies would find a way to win, yet the Scottish valiantly hung on and scraped it in.

I was more disappointed that we let the Irish snatch a draw, and even more disappointed with our second half effort in Tokyo (although we got lucky with Hynes' try being given). What really bites is the lack of composure after scoring points and after half time (this was really shown in the Tokyo game where NZ won if in the 10 minutes after half time, and in the Wales game with 15 minutes of aimless play). We led the All Blacks 3 times at half time this year, and lost all 3. In fact, of the last 5 vs NZ, the Wallabies have led at half time in 4 and lost all of those 4 (and I'm sure there was another one last year too that we led at half time and lost). If I was in the NZ team, I'd be bloody confident no matter the score at half time for the next game.

 

[MajorlyRagerly]

As I said, I look past what i deem to be the razamataz of the back and look for substance and what they really do.
As for forwards, I cannot name a player or players who gain their name and credo from continual perceived superiority due to continual illegal play.
For me McCaw, Thorn and Botha while being fantastic players rule themselves illegible.

Fair enough, I suppose. We all watch games through different glasses.

May I ask who else historically has been in this list?

 

[Ash]

BTW, I can't believe I am saying this, Lewis Moody had a wonderful November at 7 for England too.

 

[MajorlyRagerly]

(I'm curious to see if the Kiwis at TSF will vote him over Woodcock in their team of the year). I'd also consider Alexander and Palu.).

I doubt it, but you never know. Our scrum was usually pretty steady when he was on the park, so can definately expect him to get a strong showing.

Although your young fella gets a lot of big ups from most of the props there, so he may just squeeze it!

And yes, Moody had a great November.

 

[Gagger]

Fuck me, it'd be a funny old day when you chose Marcia over wife-beater or the human bar of soap.

What is it you want wingers to do again?

Searing pace, the ability to beat anyone as well as score and create tries were always high on my list. Marcia's had none of these this year (or any?).

If you wanted to tone that down to trade for another full-back surely it would be Jane?

 

[Cutter]

Definitely some yellow tinted glasses. Elsom, Hynes, Horwill, Gits don't deserve to be in the same room when this team is read out. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) can listen at the door but it hasn't been a vintage tour for him.