Tahs v Force

[cyclopath]

Good post, Hawko.
Sometimes it strikes me that some coaches continually repeat the mantra that they are trying to build combinations by picking the same players time and again, despite form and results. I suspect it is more that they cannot admit they have it wrong, either in selection issues or game plans.
Some players warrant an auto pick despite a few bad games - not many of the Tahs should be afforded this luxury, and they all pretty much reside in the front row!

 

[fatprop]

There does seem to be a distinct lack of confidence in the bench.

 

[Ash]

There does seem to be a distinct lack of confidence in the bench.

Which is amazing, as it was the bench (and the scrum) that won the Tahs the game against the Reds. That Tahs bench had more class than the Force bench, amazed it wasn't used better, especially with half the team struggling.

 

[louie]

greast post hawko,
This is a real problem in Australian Rugby in general. It seems to me every team (maybe not the reds) need to rotate their starting 15 a lot more.

Guys like Beale, To'omua, kinga, etc should be starting more super14 games so they get game time and the other players have a great break.

 

[Sully]

I think there is a philosophy that the S14 is too short to rotate players. The thinking is one lost game from rotation is too many and enough to drop you out of the finals. But if you don't rotate players is harder to step up for player injuries and bench players don't develop.

 

[mark_s]

I still say we would have lost those two games without his leadership. The fact that Hodgson was a better no 7 is correct, but is not to my point. We would have lost those two games, sure and certain with no Waugh.

Spot on. If there is a better player at the Tahs to bring in and replace him I'm all for it, but I really don't think there is such a player.

Lee I agree with our comment if Waugh's replacement only had the same positional abilities at 7 but without the leadership skills. Langthorne, there is a bloke called beau robinson who can't even get a super contract but who was a very capable replacement for waugh when he was in his prime, which he is now not.

We wree very lucky that Pocock was injured on the weekend.

 

[Lee Grant]

My comment was that would have lost those 2 games without Waugh's leadership and I won't qualify it further with ifs and buts. Let's leave it at that.

I think there is a philosophy that the S14 is too short to rotate players. The thinking is one lost game from rotation is too many and enough to drop you out of the finals. But if you don't rotate players is harder to step up for player injuries and bench players don't develop.

It's a good point and particularly relevant when we don't have a Currie Cup or ANZC to assess players properly before they get to the S14. It is hard for a coach but sometimes you have to bite the bullet.

One thing I like about the expanded competition next year is that Oz teams will get more games. I won't matter so much to the other two SANZAR countries because they have strong national competitions.

With more games Oz teams can rotate more and they will likely be forced to do so anyway. I'd like to see the bye removed from Super rugby but unfortunately 15 won't divide by two.

 

[PhucNgo]

I thought the Tahs really missed Palu. Everything was left to TPN and he can't do everything. Mowen failed to step up and I cant see why so many people on here love him so much. He is a poor mans Steven Hoiles and that is saying something.

Barnes had a shocker but he still had a couple of touches that showed he has a bit of class. Would stick with the same backline except the obvious Horne for Carter and Beale for Anessi.

Once again the Tahs looked like they lacked fitness. Too much walking, no energy in contact, runners standing flat footed and getting in one anothers way. Very lucky to get away with it.

Robbo hasnt been having quite the same impact as in the past. Even his passing from the base of the ruck has fallen away. He might be down to number 3 halfback in the country although on the performance of Burgo, Sheehan and Valentine he probably still has the number 2 slot locked in. When Palmer was coming on it was Robbo who was meant to go off but Kepu walked off. Do we think Robbo or Waugh overruled Hickey on that one?

Kepu was being manhandled mercilessly by Henderson. And while on the subject, why was it left to TPN to take a ball up? I can't recall Kepu taking it up at any stage in the Force game. I mean, the guy is a big big unit, and can motor. So in the absence of Palu, why was it left up to the remaining member of Team Tonga to do the hard yards? Yet another strategic blunder from the team who brought you Tropic Thunder and the 2010 Waratahs.

 

[topo]

Agree that Kepu copped it from Henderson, but that's not surprising. Kepu rarely plays THP, he is a converted backrower who has spent all his time at LHP. In fairness, though, I do remember him carting it up a couple of times and going alright when he did. Not being a regular in the run on makes it hard to demand the pill for a run.

 

[Scotty]

I think there is a philosophy that the S14 is too short to rotate players. The thinking is one lost game from rotation is too many and enough to drop you out of the finals. But if you don't rotate players is harder to step up for player injuries and bench players don't develop.

If that was the theory, then most coaches would play the same starting 15s for the last two trial matches. They generally are still chopping and changing rather than trying to ensure combinations grow and then hit the ground running in round 1.

I disagree with 'rotation' unless a player is completely out of form/useless or another player would suit an opposition better. Keeping much the same side with only one or two changes per week generally works better. Of course if you are on a Force like losing streak it is worth trying to change it up a bit more than that.

There has been too much talk about the Tahs backs on this thread, and while I agree that Barnes and Anesi deserve to be dropped on consistently below par performances, it was the Tahs forwards that let the Force get so close. They have the ability as a unit to be so much better.

 

[TheRiddler]

Barnes is pretty honest about his own performance

''That was probably the worst game I have ever f---ing played,'' offered Waratahs centre Berrick Barnes after his side's unimpressive 14-10 defeat of the Western Force in Perth.

Barnes, who was replaced in the 73rd minute by Kurtley Beale........

So we could see he was playing badly. The crowd could see he was playing badly. The player himself knew he was having an awful game. The only person who couldnt see appears to be Hickey who waited until the 73rd minute to make the change and that was probably because he thought he'd better give Kurtley a couple of minutes to stop him sulking all week.

You cant even make this stuff up. If it wasnt so exasperating it would probably be quite amusing.

 

[Epi]

''It's easy to overlook his contribution in defence, he was a really key factor in defence, particularly marking up James O'Connor,'' Hickey said.

Just love that quote after the game about Barnes. He really is the most clueless coach... :lmao:

 

[fatprop]

''It's easy to overlook his contribution in defence, he was a really key factor in defence, particularly marking up James O'Connor,'' Hickey said.

Just love that quote after the game about Barnes. He really is the most clueless coach... :lmao:

Nah, a coaches role is not to put shit on his player in public.

 

[Pfitzy]

But is he even doing it in private? After the Reds' narrow loss to the Tahs, Link put a rocket up every one of them.

 

[Epi]

''It's easy to overlook his contribution in defence, he was a really key factor in defence, particularly marking up James O'Connor,'' Hickey said.

Just love that quote after the game about Barnes. He really is the most clueless coach... :lmao:

Nah, a coaches role is not to put shit on his player in public.

Granted - Hickey is clearly not seeing the same game everyone else is.

 

[waratahjesus]

his quote isnt outlandish or unjustified, he didnt comment on barnes attacking game at all, then said his defensive game was good, if Hickey had brought Beale on and Beale had missed a tackle and JOC (James O'Connor) had scored, you would still be hanging shit on him. The force played like they were in a grand final, theyw ill be flat as crap against the bulls and get rolled by plenty next week. but for now, they had there best game of the season and the tahs managed to get the four points just like in QLD.

its a strange thing thats happened this year, all of a sudden people from the north and west are talking as if moral victories mean as much as real ones, news flash, you can play as flashy and outlandishly as you want, winning matters at the end and the tahs did that, boring as shit game, no excitment and i say that after only watching the 20 minute version but still, it was a win,

 

[David]

"It is very unfair to criticise us for our attacking display against the Force as it is not giving them as much credit for their massive defensive performance as they deserve." That is a Hickey quote from the SMH, does this guy ever stop talking crap? I am pretty sure the Reds, Chiefs and Hurricanes were able to score tries against the Force, and while I concede the Force defence was better, to not make a single line break in 80 minutes is shocking.

 

[topo]

Nadolo scores four tries for the JW's in one game and still can't get a spot on the bench.

Hawko, while I agree with a lot of what you are saying and I have been annoyed by Hickey's conservative (to say the least) use of his bench, I think his game day 22 has been pretty right. Have a good look at both Nadolo and Betham before you say they are hard done by. I have seen most of Nadolo's games this year and I am certain he is not up to the pace and pressure of S14. He drops everything in traffic and when tackled usually loses it forward. Betham is genius one week and duffer the next, still very inconsistent. The JW players who may be able to make the step up this year if required are McCaffrey, McCutcheon, McKibbin (anyone else notice a pattern here), maybe Darcy and Palmer of course. But with the possible exception of McKibbin none of the above would push anyone in the 22 out of a spot if they were fit.

 

[DPK]

his quote isnt outlandish or unjustified, he didnt comment on barnes attacking game at all, then said his defensive game was good, if Hickey had brought Beale on and Beale had missed a tackle and JOC (James O'Connor) had scored, you would still be hanging shit on him. The force played like they were in a grand final, theyw ill be flat as crap against the bulls and get rolled by plenty next week. but for now, they had there best game of the season and the tahs managed to get the four points just like in QLD.

its a strange thing thats happened this year, all of a sudden people from the north and west are talking as if moral victories mean as much as real ones, news flash, you can play as flashy and outlandishly as you want, winning matters at the end and the tahs did that, boring as shit game, no excitment and i say that after only watching the 20 minute version but still, it was a win,

Ever read Black Hawk Down? Has anyone else?

 

[Lee Grant]

Have a good look at both Nadolo and Betham before you say they are hard done by. I have seen most of Nadolo's games this year and I am certain he is not up to the pace and pressure of S14. He drops everything in traffic and when tackled usually loses it forward. Betham is genius one week and duffer the next, still very inconsistent.

But with the possible exception of McKibbin none of the above would push anyone in the 22 out of a spot if they were fit.

Right and right.

NN played OK in the trial at Viking Park without setting the world on fire but he was back to his old self against the Runners at Knox - a cartoon character.

Betham had a brilliant run at Viking Park and a couple of other good bits of play. They probably took him to the RSA on the strength of it, but he disappointed me at Knox against the Runners as he seemed not to know what to do apart from running with the pill. He used the ball better at school. It's all the more disappointing because he looked good in the Shute Shield final.

Agree about McKibbin. He was the only JW who looked like a sure S14 player based on that Knox game. I will have no qualms if Burgess or Holmes are injured.