Tahs v Force
- Thread starter TheRiddler
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As opposed to Hoiles who gets smacked like a bitch every time he runs it up. Sure he goes more backwards than across field - is that a virtue? Hoiles is a lightweight who will get owned by any decent international team. He shines against France C and Italy and that's about it. From this weekends games, neither did anything deserving of higher honours.the gambler said:
the gambler
Dave Cowper (27)
Dont get me wrong. I dont think Hoiles is good. I just think Mowen is at the same level or slightly below.
D
David
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Biffo said:
The Tahs problem as it stands is they have a crap halfback, a conservative 10 and 12, and a useless 13 and 15. I don't see how moving barnes to fullback is going to result in anything other then more kicking. He couldn't attack to save his life, I would be bringing a new winger through and moving mitchell to 15. Drop carter so fast it would make he head spin, put horne at 13, as for Barnes, I would be dropping him if there was someone better, but beale is a gutless coward in defence so I wouldn't be rushing to put him in.
Lee Grant
John Eales (66)
That was bitterly disappointing for a Tahs fan but not unexpected after last year's procession of similar games even though winning a lot of them. We were hoping that the Lions game would have least given the Tahs backs a training run using the correct mechanics of back play but they looked like a backline I used to coach in the Under 10s.
At least Horne and the wingers moved onto the ball and tried to use if when there was a player in space, which was far too seldom. Generally the backs seemed to be surprised to get the ball and moved sideways because they had the Force backs coming up and in at them - something that was predicted on TV and in the papers.
They looked poorly coached and I hope the Tahs can get Gaffney back from Ireland next year to give them some of the old Randwick stuff. The Tahs backs don't look Australian; their only merit in this game compared to the execrable Sharks match was that they didn't revert to ping pong as much as I thought they would.
As for criticism of players: it has been covered by others better than I could. There has been a bit of emotion about Waugh's ability for national honours but it misses the point, as it always does when talking about the S14, that whilst he is not the best Tahs player, he is their most valuable one. Chalk up another win, to go with the Reds result, that would not have been gained but for the presence of the Tahs' skipper. Faarque - I'm glad he was there for both games.
Well said - and you stole my thunder including the comparison with Hoiles later on, which I inadvertently deleted. Mowen is not a runner over of people; he is a stepper of people, a reliable man to back you up on the run and top notch in the lineout. Like Holies, he is a lightweight, and it has nothing to do with how much he weighs. Both play a light game.
It is a pity that Freier has been injured. With Palu down I would otherwise have played TPN at 8 where he was murderously effective at school. (He played 6 also). Apart from the set pieces he was allocated most of Palu's work anyway, but he would have been good from the base of the scrum.
His throwing to the lineout is still a problem and some of the takes by the receivers were sloppy too. Too many times they slapped the ball down with one hand when they could have got two hands on with a bit more aerial hustle. Apart from too many turnovers, sometimes because of being too tardy in backing up players or thinking of doing so in the first place, the Tahs forwards looked good. One constant this year has been their physicality.
The Tahs didn't test the Force defence as much as the Reds did last week but you could see that it had tightened up. The Force set pieces were a lot better than last week also and especially the lineout. The players and coaches should get credit for the turnaround. It's not as easy as it sounds, especially in the top few inches.
The Force backs were scarcely better than the Tahs rabble and couldn't even convert their breakout chances. Apart from Spanner, and Rabbit when he gets a chance, they lack a bit of pace position for position to do that kind of thing.
The match was a poor advertisement for the Super14 and for Oz rugby. The only team that Oz fans can be proud of is the Reds. They have a go and now have the platform to have a go from.
The only redeeming factor for Oz rugby was the performance of Matt Hodgson. Hodge has had a hard rugby road to journey on. He played in the centres a bit as a young bloke but he had a lot of injuries including breaking his leg IIRR. He emerged as a general dogsbody backrower for Manly and even got into the Tahs stable and played a few non-Super games IIRR. I do remember mentioning him for a Force squad spot on the other forum, but did I ever expected to see such a performance as a 7 last night in Super14 rugby? Nosiree. He looked like a professional 7 as though to the manor born.
We all saw his improvement in the S14 last year and were not all that surprised about his elevation to the Wallabies squad. But with the injury to Pocock has come serendipity. We had seen glimpses in the past when Pocock was off the field, and especially this year, that Hodge could play 7; you could see him rising, but now you can see the real deal openside flanker. The pity is that he and Pocock play in the same team.
Last week I said that 7 was a black hole for Oz rugby because there was only one valid candidate for the Wallaby openside flanker. I won't be saying that this week.
At least Horne and the wingers moved onto the ball and tried to use if when there was a player in space, which was far too seldom. Generally the backs seemed to be surprised to get the ball and moved sideways because they had the Force backs coming up and in at them - something that was predicted on TV and in the papers.
They looked poorly coached and I hope the Tahs can get Gaffney back from Ireland next year to give them some of the old Randwick stuff. The Tahs backs don't look Australian; their only merit in this game compared to the execrable Sharks match was that they didn't revert to ping pong as much as I thought they would.
As for criticism of players: it has been covered by others better than I could. There has been a bit of emotion about Waugh's ability for national honours but it misses the point, as it always does when talking about the S14, that whilst he is not the best Tahs player, he is their most valuable one. Chalk up another win, to go with the Reds result, that would not have been gained but for the presence of the Tahs' skipper. Faarque - I'm glad he was there for both games.
the gambler said:
Well said - and you stole my thunder including the comparison with Hoiles later on, which I inadvertently deleted. Mowen is not a runner over of people; he is a stepper of people, a reliable man to back you up on the run and top notch in the lineout. Like Holies, he is a lightweight, and it has nothing to do with how much he weighs. Both play a light game.
It is a pity that Freier has been injured. With Palu down I would otherwise have played TPN at 8 where he was murderously effective at school. (He played 6 also). Apart from the set pieces he was allocated most of Palu's work anyway, but he would have been good from the base of the scrum.
His throwing to the lineout is still a problem and some of the takes by the receivers were sloppy too. Too many times they slapped the ball down with one hand when they could have got two hands on with a bit more aerial hustle. Apart from too many turnovers, sometimes because of being too tardy in backing up players or thinking of doing so in the first place, the Tahs forwards looked good. One constant this year has been their physicality.
The Tahs didn't test the Force defence as much as the Reds did last week but you could see that it had tightened up. The Force set pieces were a lot better than last week also and especially the lineout. The players and coaches should get credit for the turnaround. It's not as easy as it sounds, especially in the top few inches.
The Force backs were scarcely better than the Tahs rabble and couldn't even convert their breakout chances. Apart from Spanner, and Rabbit when he gets a chance, they lack a bit of pace position for position to do that kind of thing.
The match was a poor advertisement for the Super14 and for Oz rugby. The only team that Oz fans can be proud of is the Reds. They have a go and now have the platform to have a go from.
The only redeeming factor for Oz rugby was the performance of Matt Hodgson. Hodge has had a hard rugby road to journey on. He played in the centres a bit as a young bloke but he had a lot of injuries including breaking his leg IIRR. He emerged as a general dogsbody backrower for Manly and even got into the Tahs stable and played a few non-Super games IIRR. I do remember mentioning him for a Force squad spot on the other forum, but did I ever expected to see such a performance as a 7 last night in Super14 rugby? Nosiree. He looked like a professional 7 as though to the manor born.
We all saw his improvement in the S14 last year and were not all that surprised about his elevation to the Wallabies squad. But with the injury to Pocock has come serendipity. We had seen glimpses in the past when Pocock was off the field, and especially this year, that Hodge could play 7; you could see him rising, but now you can see the real deal openside flanker. The pity is that he and Pocock play in the same team.
Last week I said that 7 was a black hole for Oz rugby because there was only one valid candidate for the Wallaby openside flanker. I won't be saying that this week.
the gambler
Dave Cowper (27)
On Hodgson I remember him playing some very good games for the Woods and he was one of the best Aussie players at the Hong Kong Sevens (which I am going to again next week :yay :yay) back circa 2004. Seemed to fall off the radar for a while until turning up at the Force. Even then it was only last year that he really stamped himself as a player deserving a starting S14 spot week in week out. When did he move to Manly?
Ash
Michael Lynagh (62)
Lee Grant said:
Although I used to be, now I am not a fan of those types of positional switches. Most players get into a different head space when swapping positions like that, and often struggle to produce the same kind of game. Hooker to number 8 is indeed quite tricky, as you would move from throwing to lifting in the lineout, and hooking to controlling the ball at the back. Plus there is some consideration as to how you play - eg good 8s often drop back when they know a kick reception is coming in loose play. Sort of just coming out of your comfort zone, and only the really natural footballers can manage it. I've always envied them, as I just plain suck and wish I could do it.
Yeah, he had limited opportunities (mainly off the bench) for the Tahs then initially at the Force, and I have vivid recollections of Hodgson falling off tackles leading directly to tries after coming off the bench. In the odd game he started he was anonymous.
How times have changed. In the interview before the game Hodgson said with Pocock and Brown out he'd have to stand up - and he did. Hodgson had a very good year last year, this year he's been superb.
Firstly, I think that Hodgson will go very well at 6 when Pocock returns. I think he'd make a great backrow utility replacement, being able to cover 6, 7, and 8 for the Wallabies this year. Last year he went very well for the Force at 6. Which leads onto...
Secondly, for someone who watched the earlier Force games Lee, give yourself a little slap. Hodgson has been the Force's stand out in the other games too (mainly at 7), so his performance vs the Tahs this year is definitely not a one-off. But it's a good thing insofar that maybe some more one-eyed Tah supporters will now have watched a Force game this year and will swap Waugh for Hodgson in their Wallaby side predictions... (I'm not referring to Lee there.)
TheRiddler
Dave Cowper (27)
Gather round. Bring it in tight. Are we all here? Do we have a quorum? Good - then let me say this.
Gentlemen (why are there so few of the fairer sex here? Fucked if I know) - I have been listening to your various points of view, your arguments and your counter arguments. Your stats laden posts and your pure emotional outpourings. And, having digested all the information, I have come to a startling conclusion.
He is showing himself up more and more each week as being nothing more than a flat-track bully (although last night he couldnt even put together a decent game plan to topple a team that is anchored to the bottom of the table). On current form I think that even a Shute Shield club would be wary of having him on their coaching staff.
Piss poor player management. Terrible game plans. Unbelievable use of a bench. Players who have been keen, eager, skillful, passionate, committed seem to have lost their way. Yes, of course everybody is an individual and has to take a certain amount of personal responsibility. Yes of course the coaching staff is made up of a number of people and they should all share the blame. However, Hickey is the Head Coach, he is paid to use his skill, experience, nous etc to bring it all together in a cohesive and successful manner. And he is clearly failing in that.
And yes WJ, before you chime in (who let him through the door anyway, thought he was barred from these meetings until he faces up to reality), I can see where the Tahs sit on the table and I can see the win/loss record. But if you are still fooling yourself that we have a realistic chance of taking out the title this year, I truly despair.
After the Lions game, I think the Tahs bean-counters would have been hopeful of a half decent crowd next week against the Blues. I think that last night's performance has put those ambitions to rest as well.
As a good friend of mine wrote in last weeks Fitz Files, I have been well and truly Waratahised.
Gentlemen (why are there so few of the fairer sex here? Fucked if I know) - I have been listening to your various points of view, your arguments and your counter arguments. Your stats laden posts and your pure emotional outpourings. And, having digested all the information, I have come to a startling conclusion.
Hickey is completely useless as a Super coach
He is showing himself up more and more each week as being nothing more than a flat-track bully (although last night he couldnt even put together a decent game plan to topple a team that is anchored to the bottom of the table). On current form I think that even a Shute Shield club would be wary of having him on their coaching staff.
Piss poor player management. Terrible game plans. Unbelievable use of a bench. Players who have been keen, eager, skillful, passionate, committed seem to have lost their way. Yes, of course everybody is an individual and has to take a certain amount of personal responsibility. Yes of course the coaching staff is made up of a number of people and they should all share the blame. However, Hickey is the Head Coach, he is paid to use his skill, experience, nous etc to bring it all together in a cohesive and successful manner. And he is clearly failing in that.
And yes WJ, before you chime in (who let him through the door anyway, thought he was barred from these meetings until he faces up to reality), I can see where the Tahs sit on the table and I can see the win/loss record. But if you are still fooling yourself that we have a realistic chance of taking out the title this year, I truly despair.
After the Lions game, I think the Tahs bean-counters would have been hopeful of a half decent crowd next week against the Blues. I think that last night's performance has put those ambitions to rest as well.
As a good friend of mine wrote in last weeks Fitz Files, I have been well and truly Waratahised.
Lee Grant
John Eales (66)
Ash said:
I won't hit myself too hard Ash; he has been good this year as Blind Freddy would know. But maybe it's just me, I have never seen him play so well at 7 as he did last night. Last night was the first time I thought he was a valid specialist 7 option for Oz (in crunch games) rather than a Wallaby bench player who could play 7.the gambler said:
2005
TheRiddler
Dave Cowper (27)
Blue said:
I was quoting my friend rather than Phillipe Sella's bitch
Talking of ex-Wallabies, saw Kearns down at the Balmoral 1km Charity Swim this morning. Good effort from him taking the red-eye back from Perth overnight and fronting up. Not sure the budgies ar a good idea though Phil - and a dood set of love handles on you (says me, a true adonis of a man).
And talking of Fox commentators, Greg Martin is really giving me the shits this year. Almost as much as Kafer - and Hickey.
Which reminds me, and apologies for digressing, Hickey is hopeless and should be fired.
R
rugbywhisperer
Guest
If only the Tahs had displayes such skill against the Reds
mark_s
Chilla Wilson (44)
Lee Grant said:
I disagree, I thought the tahs biggest problem last night was that for 75 mins we were dominated at the breakdown and Hodgson had it all over Waugh. I am confident that we would have won easily had we have had parity at the breakdown (or if Barnes had of made his kicks). The fact that Waugh won the last 5 mins onlY serves to deflect attention from the fact that the great warrior is no great more. His still smart; passionate and a good captain but his just isn't getting to the play first enough anymore and its holding back the team. We are never going to be competitive with the best teams until we have a true no. 7.
In saying that, I thought all the tah forwards bar TPN And Benn we poor last night. I think they expected the force to be similar to the lions, i.e. spread it at every opportunity. There was too much standing around and too much taking the ball from a standing start.
I am struggling to see value in Kepu, he looks like someone who was always a big kid and so has never learned to play properly with good technique. Kepu sould have filled Palu's ball running role last night. ITs not enough being a big lump of meat at Super level or above. I hope he proves me wrong, otherwise we have made a major error in letting Palmer go.
As for our backs, Anesi needs to be taken out by a sniper, its the only way he will drop out fo the starting 15.
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