Sydney Subbies 2025

[Pfitzy]

Difficult to schedule womens Xs in Subbies terms as it stands right now.

Ideally the top division(s) have the resources to get women's going in short order, particularly where they have juniors and a stack of mens rugby. That way you have divisions locked away in their own competition.

So the first question for me is: where are the JJC teams for Mosman, Blue Mountains, Drummoyne, and Waverley?

The second question: why are Petersham and Briars playing XVs in Div 2 and Chikarovski Cup respectively instead of Subbies? I would imagine playing a full division of Womens Xs rugby with the boys every week in a competitive landscape is preferable to shipping big scores against Premier clubs, but maybe I'm old-fashioned

Lower division clubs are always going to have challenges fielding a side, but some may find it easier if they can tap an existing base like a University.

 

[Here To Do]

The second question: why are Petersham and Briars playing XVs in Div 2 and Chikarovski Cup respectively instead of Subbies? I would imagine playing a full division of Womens Xs rugby with the boys every week in a competitive landscape is preferable to shipping big scores against Premier clubs, but maybe I'm old-fashioned

I don't know the gory details, but my limited understanding was that we weren't allowed into JJC because of concerns we could have non-amateur players trickle down from the XVs side (which, if you've seen some of the other teams in the comps, are stacked with Super and international players). We are strictly amateur across the board, but Subbies, apparently, did not accept this.

We were, to the best of my limited, arms-length knowledge, absolutely hoping and intending to have our "gold" side playing XVs and our "maroon" side in the JJC. Wasn't to be unfortunately.

(N.B.: while I'm involved with the club, I'm not exactly in the "inner circle" nor privy to any correspondence between us and any competition admins)

 

[Pfitzy]

I don't have Ted's experience, but I've refereed a few games around Subbies - lower grades in high divisions, primarily, so probably not quite the crowd at that time of day (or the beers!)

Two further questions I'm sure you've answered 100 times already... 1: do you find the sideline abuse is worth that physical and mental challenge?

Most of the time I don't even hear it - I'm focused on what is in front of me. When you're further than 10 metres from the sideline it's all just noise.

2: I've always wanted to know, do you find yourself sub-consciously wanting to reward the team that isn't chirping back at decisions? I guess the actual question is do you subscribe to 'keeping the ref on your side'?

Personally, no. At each contest I'm looking for particular behaviours or actions from players in terms of applying the Law. Given it is mostly 3rd Grade or lower, I make allowances for the fitness and skill that is in front of me - who am I to criticise on that front?

It isn't playing "evensies" as much as it is taking into account it is a game, it is serious during the match, but we all go to work Monday.

However, I have seen incidents where the ref has started to become more erratic as the game heats up. It is only natural as we're all human and meant to be doing this for fun. When tensions rise, particularly where there has been a bit of foul play, we all respond differently.

Additionally: nobody knows the mind of another.

Maybe that player had a shit week and is lashing out from frustration elsewhere in their lives.
Maybe the ref has had a shit week and isn't in the right headspace to put up with that kind of rubbish.

 

[Odyssey_Park the 2nd]

Interesting weekend discussions.
Forest Colts had 15 and uncontested so played with 14 and 1 on the bench. Coach indicated they got a couple from Savers opens joint venture and still looking as they obviously need more. No real insight to the underlying challenges.

I always find this rule crazy in this situation when a team is struggling for numbers or being beaten badly and they go uncontested and they have to drop an extra player.
I get the reasoning around so teams don’t use it as an option against a stronger scrum but when there’s only 15 guys seems a really turn off to a struggling club

 

[parkfootyenthusiast2]

Div 3 Week 3 predictions:

Not sure we'll get 3 games on this week given the rain we've had, but on the off chance we do...

Beecroft @ Knox: Beecroft by 10.

Hornsby @ LCOI: LCOI by 10.

Blacktown @ Hills: Hills by 7.

Results:

Hornsby & LCOI didn't get on sadly.

Beecroft at home throttled Knox and stamped themselves as the front runners this year. Competitive first half then completely ran away with it in the second, their backline looked incredibly slick, 10 had it on a string all day.

Not to be outdone, Hills also moved to 3/3 with a convincing win over Div 3 newcomers Blacktown at their spiritual home at Yattenden. Hills also look very slick in the backs with their back 3 crossing for 8 tries... 5!! to Wilson Southon on the left wing... sheesh. Blacktown undone by poor discipline with three yellows, hard to win 14 v 15 for half the game.

Many will have that first Beecroft Hills clash in two weeks' time pencilled in to find out who gets the first edge of the season.

Some interesting clashes this week, Beecroft should make light work of LCOI, but Knox v Hills should be a good clash, as should Hornsby v Blacktown for the two presumptive cellar dwellars.

 

[Heavyd]

Totally get that growing pains and all, and not a dig at the team itself as you suggest.
But when you have very low hanging fruit by having Newport in Div 1, the Women's team also winning a JJC premiership so you cant really argue its a talent level thing, and the competition pushing for alignment with men's divisions, i just don't understand why they aren't in in the top grade?

The JJC is ranked into 2 Divisions based on ability.

 

[MasterSergeant]

I always find this rule crazy in this situation when a team is struggling for numbers or being beaten badly and they go uncontested and they have to drop an extra player.
I get the reasoning around so teams don’t use it as an option against a stronger scrum but when there’s only 15 guys seems a really turn off to a struggling club

Who remembers the days when you would approach the opposition team and say can we borrow a front rower?!
The fabric the game was originally built on, as long as insurance covers an individual, Why not? I can remember the borrowing of opposition players applying at some very good levels on the fields of Aotearoa! Have we lost that spirit?

 

[Pfitzy]

Who remembers the days when you would approach the opposition team and say can we borrow a front rower?!
The fabric the game was originally built on, as long as insurance covers an individual, Why not? I can remember the borrowing of opposition players applying at some very good levels on the fields of Aotearoa! Have we lost that spirit?

Maybe some have lost that spirit. Certainly I've been talking to clubs who have helped out when numbers were short.

The worst outcome is you get injured playing against one of your own guys.

 

[Crashy]

back in the day, if you went uncontested, the other team got a free kick but you had 15 on the field still. I always though that was fair expect the big boppers would do hitups and get some good yards.

 

[Ref_Ted]

I always find this rule crazy in this situation when a team is struggling for numbers or being beaten badly and they go uncontested and they have to drop an extra player.
I get the reasoning around so teams don’t use it as an option against a stronger scrum but when there’s only 15 guys seems a really turn off to a struggling club

The intention was to let them play 15 later in the match, likely once they had a few tries on the board. Not sure if it happened.

 

[Ref_Ted]

1: do you find the sideline abuse is worth that physical and mental challenge?

My first official role was AR for 3rd Grade at a Prem club. 2nd game I called a opposition player for stepping out as he was going over the line. My first introduction to crowd abuse, it was not nice, they were calling me an f'n cheat and trying to take my photo to put on facebook (I have been in sales for 20+yrs so adversity I am used to). To make it worse I moments later put my flag up as another opposition player caught the ball over the line though inches from the ground. In his disgust he through the ball in for which a home team caught and thought he was running down to score. To make it worse I tried to explain my reasoning with an explanation that was simply wrong. Both teams were mad at me, and it carried on after the match and for the rest of the day. I had ruined the game in their eyes. I had no idea they took the game so seriously, I had only done an online course. I was ready to quit.
Obviously I did not. Point is, abuse to the AR is harder to handle as you don't hear much when you are in the middle. No excuse for the times when refs have been attacked obviously, though that is thankfully the exception in Rugby.
Hate to say it, but juniors is the worst and it is foremost the parents. Whilst they don't call out, they are often sure to say something within earshot after the game. Some coaches can't help themselves as well and feel like they can question calls from the sideline at will. Even when the ref is fairly young. On that coaches calling out and questioning calls is often detrimental to their side as the players pick up on it, start going at the ref to and get distracted from playing thinking they are being disadvantaged and all is hopeless.

2: I've always wanted to know, do you find yourself sub-consciously wanting to reward the team that isn't chirping back at decisions? I guess the actual question is do you subscribe to 'keeping the ref on your side'?

We have tools to manage chirping and are expected to use them. These days I seem to manage it quite okay.
When I did not have the tools (its a knowledge thing) the big issue was I was looking at everything the players were calling and missed a major issue because I was distracted. I awarded the penalty to the offending team. It was a dumb call and there was outrage however I was distracted by the other team 'chirping'.

Bringing this back to a subbies topic in the subbies forum, Subbies has done a great job in recent years supporting referees and lifting the required standard for ARs which is a big help to some of the lower graded referees particularly.

 

[21mm]

My first official role was AR for 3rd Grade at a Prem club. 2nd game I called a opposition player for stepping out as he was going over the line. My first introduction to crowd abuse, it was not nice, they were calling me an f'n cheat and trying to take my photo to put on facebook (I have been in sales for 20+yrs so adversity I am used to). To make it worse I moments later put my flag up as another opposition player caught the ball over the line though inches from the ground. In his disgust he through the ball in for which a home team caught and thought he was running down to score. To make it worse I tried to explain my reasoning with an explanation that was simply wrong. Both teams were mad at me, and it carried on after the match and for the rest of the day. I had ruined the game in their eyes. I had no idea they took the game so seriously, I had only done an online course. I was ready to quit.
Obviously I did not. Point is, abuse to the AR is harder to handle as you don't hear much when you are in the middle. No excuse for the times when refs have been attacked obviously, though that is thankfully the exception in Rugby.
Hate to say it, but juniors is the worst and it is foremost the parents. Whilst they don't call out, they are often sure to say something within earshot after the game. Some coaches can't help themselves as well and feel like they can question calls from the sideline at will. Even when the ref is fairly young. On that coaches calling out and questioning calls is often detrimental to their side as the players pick up on it, start going at the ref to and get distracted from playing thinking they are being disadvantaged and all is hopeless.

We have tools to manage chirping and are expected to use them. These days I seem to manage it quite okay.
When I did not have the tools (its a knowledge thing) the big issue was I was looking at everything the players were calling and missed a major issue because I was distracted. I awarded the penalty to the offending team. It was a dumb call and there was outrage however I was distracted by the other team 'chirping'.

Bringing this back to a subbies topic in the subbies forum, Subbies has done a great job in recent years supporting referees and lifting the required standard for ARs which is a big help to some of the lower graded referees particularly.

The way we treat our refs is what separates us from the the rest of the sporting world.

We need reminding from time to time, but overall i feel that there is no better environment to officiate than in Rugby.

 

[DaSchmooze]

The way we treat our refs is what separates us from the the rest of the sporting world.

We need reminding from time to time, but overall i feel that there is no better environment to officiate than in Rugby.

Some of the nonsense you see happen in Soccer is utterly appalling.

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

I have no evidence for this but surely Cricket might be the best although the time given is hell. Just a bit of precious whinging.

Soccer have a problem that the elite players are so untouchable they can abuse refs and gang up on them and the attitude flows right down.

 

[21mm]

I have no evidence for this but surely Cricket might be the best although the time given is hell. Just a bit of precious whinging.

Soccer have a problem that the elite players are so untouchable they can abuse refs and gang up on them and the attitude flows right down.

A very good point you make, they are pretty protected and treated with a lot of respect.

Problem is you have to stand still for in the sun for 90~overs. No thanks

 

[Pfitzy]

The way we treat our refs is what separates us from the the rest of the sporting world.

We need reminding from time to time, but overall i feel that there is no better environment to officiate than in Rugby.

Agreed, but it is worse than it was at most levels.

 

[Ref_Ted]

I have no evidence for this but surely Cricket might be the best although the time given is hell. Just a bit of precious whinging.

Soccer have a problem that the elite players are so untouchable they can abuse refs and gang up on them and the attitude flows right down.

Strong believer that familiarity breeds contempt. What's my name? - "Sir".

 

[Pfitzy]

Strong believer that familiarity breeds contempt. What's my name? - "Sir".

Agreed - when I see AFL or NRL umpires call players by their name, it makes me think they're just opening themselves up to it

 

[Here To Do]

Agreed - when I see AFL or NRL umpires call players by their name, it makes me think they're just opening themselves up to it

I can speak on that as I asked that very question when I was training as an RL referee (junior mainly)

Simple answer is that sometimes players forget what jersey they're wearing but rarely forget their name

The biggest problem we have in Subbies re: dealing with referees is that the NRL culture is the strongest external one - people here aren't indoctrinated (outside of the private schools) into the rugby culture and values as much.

I learnt that - as a lifetime NRL supporter - over my first few years with Briars and took the time to educate myself on the values and I would say rugby is a much better sport to be involved with for them.

 

[Oak_Wood]

Results:

Hornsby & LCOI didn't get on sadly.

Beecroft at home throttled Knox and stamped themselves as the front runners this year. Competitive first half then completely ran away with it in the second, their backline looked incredibly slick, 10 had it on a string all day.

Not to be outdone, Hills also moved to 3/3 with a convincing win over Div 3 newcomers Blacktown at their spiritual home at Yattenden. Hills also look very slick in the backs with their back 3 crossing for 8 tries... 5!! to Wilson Southon on the left wing... sheesh. Blacktown undone by poor discipline with three yellows, hard to win 14 v 15 for half the game.

Many will have that first Beecroft Hills clash in two weeks' time pencilled in to find out who gets the first edge of the season.

Some interesting clashes this week, Beecroft should make light work of LCOI, but Knox v Hills should be a good clash, as should Hornsby v Blacktown for the two presumptive cellar dwellars.

Whilst the Beecroft backline have serious amount of talent, the Beecroft pack has been ruthless in their execution and domination of each pack they have opposed so far...allowing the backs to shine!