Sydney Subbies 2025

[Pfitzy]

I can hear the screaming now...

 

[Odyssey_Park the 2nd]

I think the best compromise has been reached for Div Two - Irish were the next team up given their rise over the past few years. Same happened with Harlequins in 2022(?).

However, the flip side is the player hoarding I alluded to before, except that this time it's in 4th Grade for Waves' 6th XV and for Burraneer in Colts. It's good because it gets clubs and players more games but means that players are staying at clubs with excess players.

Maybe Subbies needs to look at a rego cap or something, say 30 players per grade and 50 per Colts - that does run the risk of isolating and excluding players though so certainly not a perfect solution (or maybe not good at all).

A couple of things with capping player numbers.
- What happens when I turn up as number 30 the battler 4th grade bench player and then 31 superstar ex shute shield player turns up a couple of weeks later… I know who clubs are picking. The battler 4th grader is then unlikely to turn up elsewhere when he’s been shafted by club A.
- Even a cap of 20 players per grade and 40
In Colts would still lead to enough for another grade in the bigger clubs.
- If a club does have a big drain on players like Newport did a few years ago and Subbies have restricted there numbers what happens when they can’t get there required teams on the field.

 

[Pfitzy]

A couple of things with capping player numbers.
- What happens when I turn up as number 30 the battler 4th grade bench player and then 31 superstar ex shute shield player turns up a couple of weeks later… I know who clubs are picking. The battler 4th grader is then unlikely to turn up elsewhere when he’s been shafted by club A.
- Even a cap of 20 players per grade and 40
In Colts would still lead to enough for another grade in the bigger clubs.
- If a club does have a big drain on players like Newport did a few years ago and Subbies have restricted there numbers what happens when they can’t get there required teams on the field.

And that's the rub: what do we want Subbies to be?

Participation is a cornerstone of Subbies. At the same time, we talk about the competitiveness we want to see in the higher echelons.

I've said this before, but we might be rapidly approaching a situation where we have a top 12 clubs with critical mass and backing, and everyone else playing 2 Grades + Colts at maximum.

 

[Here To Do]

A couple of things with capping player numbers.
- What happens when I turn up as number 30 the battler 4th grade bench player and then 31 superstar ex shute shield player turns up a couple of weeks later… I know who clubs are picking. The battler 4th grader is then unlikely to turn up elsewhere when he’s been shafted by club A.
- Even a cap of 20 players per grade and 40
In Colts would still lead to enough for another grade in the bigger clubs.
- If a club does have a big drain on players like Newport did a few years ago and Subbies have restricted there numbers what happens when they can’t get there required teams on the field.

All very good points and hitting the nail on the head for why it isn't a perfect solution and why there'd need to be a lot of consideration before any such policy was implemented.

Take a Div One club, for example. If we implemented a 30/grade and 50/Colts system, each club could register up to 200 players each (assuming each club could register its full allotment of 50 Colts + 150 across all 5 grades), for a total of 1600 Div One players. For Div Two, this allotment would be 170 (with 50 Colts) - as you go lower down the divisions, this very quickly becomes very small with Div Three only having a max of 110, Div Four having 80, Div Five having 60 and Div Six having 30 per club.

Based on those numbers and the current structure of clubs: 4330 players across all of Subbies. Sounds big but is way lower than the 5100+ players registered last season - so you can already nix the fixed cap of 30 + 50 as being viable. Perhaps a "base" allowance of, for example x players per club, plus y players per extra grade plus z for clubs to run Colts teams would work better?

Regarding players withdrawing and numbers drops - hopefully this would be easily solved with players being able to be "de-registered" voluntarily or with allowance for players who are seriously injured or similar being discounted. No-shows and suspended/expelled players are club problems IMO.

And that's the rub: what do we want Subbies to be?

Participation is a cornerstone of Subbies. At the same time, we talk about the competitiveness we want to see in the higher echelons.

I've said this before, but we might be rapidly approaching a situation where we have a top 12 clubs with critical mass and backing, and everyone else playing 2 Grades + Colts at maximum.

100% agree with both points. We may end up with a situation where Div One needs to be a bigger/different competition kind of like the English Premier League vis-a-vis the EFL. Div Two does not seem sustainable long-term in its current form and with an 8-team Div One above it and a 2 grade + Colts Div Three below.

You could possibly move to 12 teams over 2 conferences/sub-divisions with a 16 round schedule: home and away games against 5 "in conference" teams + one game each against the other 6. Certainly not ideal but an option vs. moving to a 22 round home and away season.

 

[The Wombat]

 

[Pfitzy]

Nice problem to have... Especially when Europe calls

 

[Pfitzy]

Sounds big but is way lower than the 5100+ players registered last season

IMHO that number is inflated by tyre kickers.

This year with many clubs demanding payment on registration, I expect it to be lower overall, but more realistic

 

[Here To Do]

IMHO that number is inflated by tyre kickers.

This year with many clubs demanding payment on registration, I expect it to be lower overall, but more realistic

For sure - I'm not sure exactly how it works but it would also include people who've played 1 game of Halligans I assume.

Maybe there could be a Halligans-exempt rule or something of that ilk if the rego cap were to be introduced

 

[The ultimate ressie]

Back to the kit debacle
Going to make for some tough viewing in Div 1 as all clubs minus two have a significant amount of blue within their playing strip

 

[Here To Do]

Back to the kit debacle
Going to make for some tough viewing in Div 1 as all clubs minus two have a significant amount of blue within their playing strip

Hunters Hill can clash with Mosman and Lindfield as well but not as bad.

You could realistically end up with a situation where Drummoyne get replaced by Petersham and everyone in the Div has blue or contrasting hoops. Good luck if that ever happens.

 

[The ultimate ressie]

Hunters Hill can clash with Mosman and Lindfield as well but not as bad.

You could realistically end up with a situation where Drummoyne get replaced by Petersham and everyone in the Div has blue or contrasting hoops. Good luck if that ever happens.

Newport lower grades v waverly is going to be a nightmare

 

[Pfitzy]

Newport lower grades v waverly is going to be a nightmare

Just get Waverley's lower grades to dress in white, red, or green to suit their nationality

 

[Oak_Wood]

3/3 in first grade, did not expect Beecroft to win by that margin, encouragingly they got a 2s on the paddock also, who also walked away with a win + a draw in Colts makes for a very successful first day out for the Crofties. I'm sure Hornsby will be better for the experience as the season goes on though.

Hills looked great against LCOI after a tight tussle in the first half, some cracking long range tries scored. Looked like a great day out at Tantallon though. Hills will contend this year for sure (though with 6 teams... everyone contends lol)

Knox pretty clinical against Barker from all accounts before the benches cleared, they should be strong this year. No 2s for Barker at home vs their old rivals, their womens program is growing from strength to strength its a shame they can't convert any of that momentum on the mens side. Very worrying signs. Knox Colts did a demo job on BOBS Colts after their strong preseason results, might be another walkover of a Colts comp in Div 3 this year.

VERY early days but looks like Beecroft, Hills and Knox as the 3 heavyweights, though another week of results will give some further clarity... we just have to wait two weeks for it!

If Beecroft can keep this squad on the field, they will be extremely competitive throughout the season!

 

[Fletch]

Unsure of the finer details behind the Penrith move but seems like a good call. Emus have been guilty of being too ambitious in the past in my opinion (the move to John I Dent for example). Focussing on getting one team firing in 2025 should provide a strong foundation for future growth. To get one team through a season you are probably looking at 30+ players total.

28 registered and 2 more registering this week after some big injuries
We were close to 2 teams but to build the foundation we kept the circle small.