Sydney Subbies 2025

[Here To Do]

@Here To Do - Did Briars Cricket end up getting a few games this season after their carry on following playing on Rothwell during that weekend?

They won the top 3 grades again (and I assume the Club Championship again, I think that's like 12 seasons in a row).

Cricket pitch was a bit of a bog this weekend and the trials were cancelled. Ground otherwise looked good when I went and had a squiz the other day (before the rain).

 

[Propsruntheworld]

Scrum practice at the local

Did someone say scrums?

 

[Pfitzy]

Cricket pitch was a bit of a bog this weekend and the trials were cancelled. Ground otherwise looked good when I went and had a squiz the other day (before the rain).

If Briars diverted 10% of their International 7s Attendance Fund they could move to drop-in pitches

 

[Here To Do]

If Briars diverted 10% of their International 7s Attendance Fund they could move to drop-in pitches

I'm not going to even acknowledge the first part of that statement (I'd be angry too knowing the Renegades Roll could never reach the lofty heights of the Briars Burger) but as for the drop-in pitches, I think Drummoyne would get first preference from Canada Bay Council and they can't even get power that can survive a storm if you've seen them host preseason AFL

 

[Pfitzy]

I'm not going to even acknowledge the first part of that statement (I'd be angry too knowing the Renegades Roll could never reach the lofty heights of the Briars Burger)

Fighting words!

but as for the drop-in pitches, I think Drummoyne would get first preference from Canada Bay Council and they can't even get power that can survive a storm if you've seen them host preseason AFL

A lot of old infrastructure around there and quite a bit of it near sea level. Very tricky to get all that robust.

 

[Odyssey_Park the 2nd]

Pfitzy,

Thought I would share an interesting observation...

Was at a birthday party on the weekend and a number of my son's recently graduated school friends were there. Chatting with them and all those who opted to play Subbies were really enjoying the experience. Those who went to Shute Shield clubs and were now in the broader 3rd grade colts squad were all not enjoying it. Obviously nothing wrong with Shute Shield clubs, but clearly some misunderstanding for them as to what rugby looked like post school.

From what I can tell, they went to Shute Shield clubs because that's where they thought they were meant to go, but the reality is that given their level of commitment, skill, experience, etc they would be enjoying themselves more if they had of got the upfront decision right and found a Subbies team (especially if they did so with some school friends).

End result, from what I have seen so far, Subbies looks like it can be a great experience. Just need to keep working on getting the message out there as for many kids who have come through the school and SJRU club system all they know is the Shute Shield club universe.

These Shute clubs are constantly pushing for more players. Multiple times over the past few years clubs have had enough for a 4th grade colts with no one to play.
The Shute clubs are able to out promote and resource clubs like Pfitzys run by a few guys.
As had been pointed out previously these guys are the ones that slip through the cracks if the Shute clubs don’t have a side,

 

[HogansHeros]

My Brother-in-law is 16 and wants to play park footy. Its only his third season, so just wants to play as much footy as possible. However dural was not abe to get a team for his age group, neither did northern barbarians, or ryde. All the 16 year olds in the area have been told if they want to play theyll have to go play at eastwood.

So now he is expected to train 2-3 days a week and has resigned himself to sitting on the bench for much of the season.

Shame the systemic issues are starting so young.
His only other option seems to be to go play colts in subbies at 16.

 

[Propsruntheworld]

I've not read everyone's comments, so forgive me if I'm regurgitating what has already been said.

It seems as if the issue with colts is mass players wanting to play together and/or play at Shute shield clubs. As an idea NSW Rugby could step in and deem all Shute shield clubs as provincial (representative) sides that players need to qualify for (the criteria TBD) to be able to play for them, limiting Shute shield colts to 2 teams.

This is where subbies would need to come in, they would then be around to get those groups of 5-10 mates who play 3rds XV together and want to keep playing outside of school.

I've played with blokes in subbies who love there subbies club, and are also just as pumped to go and watch Shute shield have a few beers after there local club match.

 

[Odyssey_Park the 2nd]

My Brother-in-law is 16 and wants to play park footy. Its only his third season, so just wants to play as much footy as possible. However dural was not abe to get a team for his age group, neither did northern barbarians, or ryde. All the 16 year olds in the area have been told if they want to play theyll have to go play at eastwood.

So now he is expected to train 2-3 days a week and has resigned himself to sitting on the bench for much of the season.

Shame the systemic issues are starting so young.
His only other option seems to be to go play colts in subbies at 16.

Assuming he’s turning 17 this year otherwise he isn’t allowed to play Senior Rugby under the ARU policy

 

[Odyssey_Park the 2nd]

I've not read everyone's comments, so forgive me if I'm regurgitating what has already been said.

It seems as if the issue with colts is mass players wanting to play together and/or play at Shute shield clubs. As an idea NSW Rugby could step in and deem all Shute shield clubs as provincial (representative) sides that players need to qualify for (the criteria TBD) to be able to play for them, limiting Shute shield colts to 2 teams.

This is where subbies would need to come in, they would then be around to get those groups of 5-10 mates who play 3rds XV together and want to keep playing outside of school.

I've played with blokes in subbies who love there subbies club, and are also just as pumped to go and watch Shute shield have a few beers after there local club match.

There is numerous posts on here of people knowing colts aged players who want to play but getting caught up in th Shute system but just as many from Clubs saying the are screaming out for Colts but they can’t convince them.

There is obviously a disconnect somewhere and the options for these players just aren’t there. Having been involved for a number of years especially when Shute did drop there numbers of teams required a few years ago clubs just ran “friendly” games every few weeks and kept these kids in there system.

The issue with all these Colts/grade is that if they don’t get game time etc or the number of sides gets cut this doesn’t correlate with a boost at the local Subbies level no matter how much advertising is done. A handful may turn up but till you reach that critical mass it’s very hard to hold onto them and get a side off the ground.

 

[Pfitzy]

There is obviously a disconnect somewhere

There are disconnects everywhere.

Here's a preface to my next set of comments. Watch this video of a young man who went overseas because it is a basket case here post-school.

https://www.theroar.com.au/rugby-union/video/if-youre-not-on-the-radar-a-lot-of-kids-are-lost-the-roar-rugby-podcast-1416236/

 

[Pfitzy]

However dural was not abe to get a team for his age group, neither did northern barbarians, or ryde. All the 16 year olds in the area have been told if they want to play theyll have to go play at eastwood.

Those junior clubs probably can't run an opens team because some of their kids have been lost to schools rugby.

Dural have said to me often they'll have 2 squads for 16s and then Opens is up in the air.

When will rugby wake up and make schools rugby midweek and club rugby Saturday? League do it without issues.

And please don't ever believe the line about "oh the training for schools is too intense and requires too much dedication" - because the same kids playing first XV at Oakhill are often also playing and training league at the same time.

I've spoken to multiple people will long experience in the game who gnash their teeth at the way schools rugby dictates terms during a critical development period in a rugby player's life - both physically and mentally, but socially as well.

Until everyone - led by NSW Rugby - get in a room and figure out a better way to work together and establish feeder systems that work, things will erode, even at schools who hold themselves above the game.

Don't believe me? Go look at the AFL posts going up around "rugby nursery" private school ovals around Sydney...

 

[Pfitzy]

Just need to keep working on getting the message out there as for many kids who have come through the school and SJRU club system all they know is the Shute Shield club universe.

TBH mate I've tried. I've had very small pockets of success, but I can't compete with Premier clubs running their own development programs, and denigrating Subbies as "mickey mouse rugby".

I've played nice guy. I've sat down with Eastwood who were very interested in a "Northwest Alliance" with Subbies, schools, and juniors - right up until TGM came back online and since then it's radio silence.

As far as I'm concerned, parts of Premier Rugby need to be treated like the enemy. Often a poorly run enemy with an over-inflated opinion of itself and a competition structure that belongs in the 20th Century.

Those who believe rugby is still OK because their backyard is fine only need to see Eastwood struggling to run 4th Grade. It can happen to anyone.

 

[CrashBandicoot2]

I've not read everyone's comments, so forgive me if I'm regurgitating what has already been said.

It seems as if the issue with colts is mass players wanting to play together and/or play at Shute shield clubs. As an idea NSW Rugby could step in and deem all Shute shield clubs as provincial (representative) sides that players need to qualify for (the criteria TBD) to be able to play for them, limiting Shute shield colts to 2 teams.

This is where subbies would need to come in, they would then be around to get those groups of 5-10 mates who play 3rds XV together and want to keep playing outside of school.

I've played with blokes in subbies who love there subbies club, and are also just as pumped to go and watch Shute shield have a few beers after there local club match.

I think this is a great idea. A bit of common sense to for the overall benefit of Rugby in Sydney and Australia.

However with only 12 Shute Shield clubs, 11 in Sydney against 20+ clubs that need colts, I would foresee one club complaining about fairness that may ruin the whole thing.
Logically - Lets look at the clubs below

Eastern Suburbs - Colleagues ( or Oysters)
Eastwood - Epping
Gordon - Chatswood
Manly - Savers
Norths - HH/Mosman
Randwick -Irish/UNSW
Southern Districts - Sea Lice/Burraneer?
Sydney Uni - Petersham
Warringah - Newport
West Harbour - Briars
Parramatta - Merrylands

 

[DaSchmooze]

When will rugby wake up and make schools rugby midweek and club rugby Saturday? League do it without issues.

Because they have zero say in what happens with schools Rugby Pfitzy. We'd all like to believe that Rugby has some kind of sway over what happens in schools but they don't. They only success that Rugby has had in changing the schoolboy landscape was when Tim Cleary managed to align both the school and junior pathways to form one coherent(ish) system and he only managed to do this after years of hard work convincing both sides of the idea. Having worked in both school and club rugby for many years I think he was one of only a few people who could achieve that.

And the schools themselves even say that it's not their responsibility to develop the game. They argue that Rugby is an educational tool designed to teach boys how to be men - not a sport in which they have a duty to develop. And then add to that each school own history and traditions.

I would love to see a system whereby each space of the game had it's own dedicated playing day but I just dont see it happening short term.

I think the arguments presented above about changing the space between Subbies and Shute Shield are valid and achieveable but trying to tell Joeys that they cant play View on a Saturday afternoon... no chance.

All hope is not lost though. The current changes between CAS and ISA are a good example of what can happen when people act in good faith.

 

[Crashy]

I've not read everyone's comments, so forgive me if I'm regurgitating what has already been said.

It seems as if the issue with colts is mass players wanting to play together and/or play at Shute shield clubs. As an idea NSW Rugby could step in and deem all Shute shield clubs as provincial (representative) sides that players need to qualify for (the criteria TBD) to be able to play for them, limiting Shute shield colts to 2 teams.

This is where subbies would need to come in, they would then be around to get those groups of 5-10 mates who play 3rds XV together and want to keep playing outside of school.

I've played with blokes in subbies who love there subbies club, and are also just as pumped to go and watch Shute shield have a few beers after there local club match.

isnt the problem that the SRU is not affiliated to NSW rugby so they have no power of what Shute does?

 

[21mm]

As far as I'm concerned, parts of Premier Rugby need to be treated like the enemy. Often a poorly run enemy with an over-inflated opinion of itself and a competition structure that belongs in the 20th Century.

 

[Propsruntheworld]

isnt the problem that the SRU is not affiliated to NSW rugby so they have no power of what Shute does?

Yes, unfortunately. It seems ridiculous that the 'Shute Shield remains the pinnacle of club rugby in Australia' (SRU Website). Yet they have no official alignment with NSW Rugby.

 

[Here To Do]

I think this is a great idea. A bit of common sense to for the overall benefit of Rugby in Sydney and Australia.

However with only 12 Shute Shield clubs, 11 in Sydney against 20+ clubs that need colts, I would foresee one club complaining about fairness that may ruin the whole thing.
Logically - Lets look at the clubs below

Eastern Suburbs - Colleagues ( or Oysters)
Eastwood - Epping
Gordon - Chatswood
Manly - Savers
Norths - HH/Mosman
Randwick -Irish/UNSW
Southern Districts - Sea Lice/Burraneer?
Sydney Uni - Petersham
Warringah - Newport
West Harbour - Briars
Parramatta - Merrylands

West Harbour are more likely to strike up a partnership with Drummoyne than us, which is weird because we've had a number of people involved at WH before or after us.

There is a massive disconnect - I'd describe it as a gulf - for absolutely 0 reason as Pfitzy alludes to.

Prem clubs can absolutely identify talent in Subbies (continue poaching with promises of myrrh and frankensense) and help us develop players that may want to jump up a level.

Conversely, rather than just shipping an "unwanted" player to an enemy club in the Shute, if they treated Subbies as a nursery system, that player can still get game time and maybe develop their craft playing for a club they'll never have to face.

It's not rocket surgery - fool me once I'll not be fooled again (or something like that)

 

[Pfitzy]

The are an affiliate union under NSW Rugby.

However just like any of the other organisations they have their own Board and the ties are based on resourcing e.g. referees, streaming or deals etc. Difficult to draw boundaries there.