Sydney Subbies 2025

[Pfitzy]

Would a 6 club Div 2 work? Assuming Hills or another club can rally the numbers for 4 grades and colts.

Always tough - none of the scenarios are particularly even for Club Championship (play each other 3 times for 15 rounds or twice + 4 for 14 rounds).

And if one club dominates either arrangement, by round 12-13 you'll have forfeits. Having 7 clubs is better, but not by much.

 

[Pfitzy]

SFE asks a lot of good questions.

There were many pieces to move after COVID, and there will continue to be complexity while rugby continues to strain against a lack of volunteers and clear alignment in player recruitment and retention.

 

[Subbies Footy Enthusiast]

It’s the million dollar question, but what’s caused the volunteer crisis (this goes beyond our game and sport in general but to many different volunteer endeavours)? My take is people got used to being at home during covid but the decline in volunteerism started well before covid. Cost of living, the pace and many competing expectations of modern life, turn towards individualism instigated by social media (what’s in it for me)? Other factors?

 

[Pfitzy]

Perhaps COVID gave people a bit more FOMO - as we saw after borders opened and large numbers of Colts finally got their European holiday

For weekend sport I think it is mostly around the change in society as far as work is concerned.

Remember when shops weren't open Sundays? And only open until midday Saturays?

People are working on weekends more often than they used to across many sectors as the cost of housing (living) in Sydney also escalates.

Those with kids now have a plethora of extra curricular activities to fill their spare hours as well. I guess people are just exhausted.

 

[Pfitzy]

Also throw in changing demographics.

People ask why the Renegades haven't taken advantage of the fact we're in one of the fastest growing areas in Sydney. Most of that growth is from cultures who don't play rugby traditionally, but might in a generation or two. We have trouble recruiting Old Boys to help out, because the typical home owner in the area reaches retirement age, sells up, and moves somewhere out of Sydney to make the most of their financial gains.

The 'burbs aren't what they once were.

It creates a vicious cycle where volunteers are scarce and get burned out. So any prospective volunteers see that and don't want it. If we had a situation where many volunteers came together to lighten the load, I think clubs would be in a healthier position.

 

[Prodigy]

Also throw in changing demographics.

People ask why the Renegades haven't taken advantage of the fact we're in one of the fastest growing areas in Sydney. Most of that growth is from cultures who don't play rugby traditionally, but might in a generation or two. We have trouble recruiting Old Boys to help out, because the typical home owner in the area reaches retirement age, sells up, and moves somewhere out of Sydney to make the most of their financial gains.

The 'burbs aren't what they once were.

It creates a vicious cycle where volunteers are scarce and get burned out. So any prospective volunteers see that and don't want it. If we had a situation where many volunteers came together to lighten the load, I think clubs would be in a healthier position.

Try the Epping, Eastwood, Carlingford, Marsfield area

 

[Pfitzy]

Try the Epping, Eastwood, Carlingford, Marsfield area

Or anywhere on the lower north shore.

 

[MasterSergeant]

Hmmmm... Whose second account are you I wonder?

Got it wrong Pfitzy

 

[Here To Do]

It’s the million dollar question, but what’s caused the volunteer crisis (this goes beyond our game and sport in general but to many different volunteer endeavours)? My take is people got used to being at home during covid but the decline in volunteerism started well before covid. Cost of living, the pace and many competing expectations of modern life, turn towards individualism instigated by social media (what’s in it for me)? Other factors?

Volunteer crisis isn't the problem IMO, it's the expendable time and income crisis. I reckon volunteering, broadly, has increased with social media and the opportunity to brag about it on LinkedIn, but decreased in sport. Professionalism means sport is now a "career" industry like politics - I know Subbies isn't pro but that's precisely the problem as it's not as attractive to join a club when you could go be a barman/maid at a club where you can get paid from the gates.

I'm a self-confessed idiot because I choose to spend my Saturdays volunteering for an amateur sports club when I've actually had to turn down paid work in the industry to keep volunteering. Do I regret it? Financially, 100% but absolutely not in any other way - but I am also not "normal" in several ways so it's absolutely not for everyone.

The other thing is something I think of as "family sprawl" - each new generation born spreads further and further away from the last. I'm of Lebanese descent and, whereas I could probably have named nearly everyone as a kid, I've probably met less than 10% of the next generation after me. Plus, most of the "kids" (even though all of them are older than me since I'm in an awkward generation gap) are now parents and have moved away from the geographic areas of their parents as price rises have pushed new families further and further towards the fringes.

Without sounding rude and this is really not a dig at anyone in this thread, but if you're sitting on the sidelines talking about "someone should do" something at a club, the best someone is you - even a few hours helps clubs.

 

[Pfitzy]

even a few hours helps clubs.

Bingo. Volunteering at a club could be as little as an hour a week if enough people are involved. Take your turn on the tongs then go watch some park footy with a drink and BBQ snag in your hand.

Maybe 15 hours out of your life - 2% of your waking hours on a Saturday - across the whole year. What's not to like?

 

[TheBigArvo]

It’s mainly Shute Shield clubs, but with the drop off in player commitment it’s interesting to see so many clubs pushing a start to pre season so early is one of the reasons why we see a drop off in numbers throught out the season.

100% I understand the fitness and skills and bonding component of it all. But having guys start pre season in November for a comp that runs April- September. It’s a huge commitment to expect from people especially in an amateur competition.

 

[Here To Do]

But having guys start pre season in November for a comp that runs April- September. It’s a huge commitment to expect from people especially in an amateur competition.

A lot of that can be player driven - there's sevens and even some 15s tournaments on at the moment where players are ripping and tearing for the love of the game. If I was a player (for many reasons we can all be thankful) I'd not want to sit on my behind if I can be playing instead. It's an addiction

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

It’s mainly Shute Shield clubs, but with the drop off in player commitment it’s interesting to see so many clubs pushing a start to pre season so early is one of the reasons why we see a drop off in numbers throught out the season.

100% I understand the fitness and skills and bonding component of it all. But having guys start pre season in November for a comp that runs April- September. It’s a huge commitment to expect from people especially in an amateur competition.

That's not a new thing. My last season was at that level was 18 years ago and the November 'optional' preseason was a thing then. We'd finish in September. Have 4 weeks off and then back at it.

 

[Fletch]

Also throw in changing demographics.

People ask why the Renegades haven't taken advantage of the fact we're in one of the fastest growing areas in Sydney. Most of that growth is from cultures who don't play rugby traditionally, but might in a generation or two. We have trouble recruiting Old Boys to help out, because the typical home owner in the area reaches retirement age, sells up, and moves somewhere out of Sydney to make the most of their financial gains.

The 'burbs aren't what they once were.

It creates a vicious cycle where volunteers are scarce and get burned out. So any prospective volunteers see that and don't want it. If we had a situation where many volunteers came together to lighten the load, I think clubs would be in a healthier position.

Same in Penrith. Huge transient population!