Sydney Subbies 2024

[Pfitzy]

Maybe Eastcoast was being glib, or attempting to be funny. Or it was just a dick comment.

Regardless, I'd be careful throwing negative comments out around the womens game against either Hunters Hill or Lindfield.

Hunters Hill have had a long-running women's program and helped a number of other clubs - including mine - with advice about how to get it going, and the benefits.

Lindfield have been an important catalyst in establishing the Joy Johnson Cup - there is no denying that - arriving at a time when several other Division 2 clubs were in the game and looking for ways to establish a more permanent Saturday presence for their women.

However, at the first meeting Subbies for the 10 interested clubs in November of 2021, Lindfield were not present. I know because I convened it with the assistance of Briars and Tim Richards.

All clubs are important in establishing women's rugby, and shitchat doesn't help.

 

[Let The Boys Play.]

Did I see Epping put out a 4th grade on the weekend?

A 4th grade vs a 3rd grade. They also looking for a halligans this weekend for there 4s..... but again refuse to play a first grade. It's crazy that it's allowed.

 

[BJT]

A 4th grade vs a 3rd grade. They also looking for a halligans this weekend for there 4s..... but again refuse to play a first grade. It's crazy that it's allowed.

Having a 1-2 record in 2s and a 0-3 record in 3s would suggest it was pretty reasonable to allow it. Teams losing by 50+ week after week benefits no-one.

 

[The Wombat]

Pretty over this blokes holier than thou attitude from atop his throne.
Lindfield created the comp, and this year was an opt in with clubs as far down as div 4. Hunters Hill were invited to the comp last year and pulled out at the last minute sending the comp into a tailspin.

The new Subbies chairman noted in his first address the importance of women in sport of which HH is where he plied his trade.

And yet comments like this get thrown.

I guess respect is only earned by making it to Kentwell Grand finals and not helping Rugby Union grow and develop.

No one is having a crack at women’s rugby or Lindfield’s efforts in growing it.

The conversation was about Lindfield finding the step up to Div 1 tough.

 

[Crashy]

why dont Epping just play Div 3?

 

[The Wombat]

why dont Epping just play Div 3?

Who would move up to div 2?

 

[The Ghost of Bernie]

Who would move up to div 2?

Sydney Irish? Could be difficult with the transient nature of their player pool but past two weeks they have had a third grade. No Colts though.

 

[Pfitzy]

Sydney Irish? Could be difficult with the transient nature of their player pool .... No Colts though.

And that's why they weren't promoted TWO divisions on the basis of a good 2023 season.

 

[Eastcoast]

My comment was not a criticism of womens rugby - Ill apologise if people took it that way. The continued growth of the womens game is whats going to keep Rugby Union alive in this country

 

[footy_footy]

Becoming pretty obvious that the 3x 8 club division structure is unachievable in reality. It’s great in theory and it works great for Div 1 but after 3 rounds the forfeits and missing games in Div 2 & 3 highlight a few obvious problems.

 

[Pfitzy]

Becoming pretty obvious that the 3x 8 club division structure is unachievable in reality. It’s great in theory and it works great for Div 1 but after 3 rounds the forfeits and missing games in Div 2 & 3 highlight a few obvious problems.

Communication is key, as with many things.

For First Division clubs the critical mass is there to commit to a certain amount of teams well in advance. If you need 5 Grades + Colts you'll need about 120 players (minimum) registered to cover your games each week, and when clubs are rumoured to have over 200 that isn't a huge ask.

Many clubs are making educated guesses about where we can operate for a given season. A player saying "yes" in February isn't worth shit if it doesn't translate to a registration in April and turning up on Saturdays.

Is there opportunity to change the way Divisions are decided? There have been ideas on here about grading clubs into certain levels rather than Divisions being determined by size. This has issues with ground allocation, canteen takings, kickoff times (tradies aren't playing Saturdays at 11AM) etc.

Junior Rugby and League don't get their draws until very late in the piece, but organisationally they're different to rugby. Hard to plan your big Subbies events at the last minute if you're trying to line up equipment hire etc well in advance.

 

[Pfitzy]

Someone sent me a Tom Brady quote which I think sums up some of the player issues we're seeing as far as commitment is concerned.

He's talking about professional sport but it rings true even for Subbies. I don't think this is true of all younger players, but it is certainly a different approach to commitment.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1779216801945325744

 

[KentwellCup>ShuteShield]

Communication is key, as with many things.

For First Division clubs the critical mass is there to commit to a certain amount of teams well in advance. If you need 5 Grades + Colts you'll need about 120 players (minimum) registered to cover your games each week, and when clubs are rumoured to have over 200 that isn't a huge ask.

Many clubs are making educated guesses about where we can operate for a given season. A player saying "yes" in February isn't worth shit if it doesn't translate to a registration in April and turning up on Saturdays.

Is there opportunity to change the way Divisions are decided? There have been ideas on here about grading clubs into certain levels rather than Divisions being determined by size. This has issues with ground allocation, canteen takings, kickoff times (tradies aren't playing Saturdays at 11AM) etc.

Junior Rugby and League don't get their draws until very late in the piece, but organisationally they're different to rugby. Hard to plan your big Subbies events at the last minute if you're trying to line up equipment hire etc well in advance.

I think DIV 1 and possibly Div 2 should stay as is.

Then the rest organsied into geographical or skill based competitions. Then if this clubs want to make a play at higher honours and can get the numbers they move up.

 

[RocketRugby]

Becoming pretty obvious that the 3x 8 club division structure is unachievable in reality. It’s great in theory and it works great for Div 1 but after 3 rounds the forfeits and missing games in Div 2 & 3 highlight a few obvious problems.

I don't think the divisional structure is unachievable. I think it's pigeon holing clubs into a set number of teams that makes this setup unachievable. The overarching belief that if Division 1 can do it, the rest of you aren't trying hard enough is.
Look at us, we have 5 grades, colts and womens. Have for a couple of years. We were stuck in Division 2 with 3 grades (most weeks) and colts. Some weeks, 4th grade and 5th grade were scratching around for games, and despite our best efforts, the legacy team were a bit chop and change.
Currently, we have Lindfield, Waverley, Mosman, Blue Mountains, Hunters Hill, Colleagues, Drummoyne (maybe), St Patricks, UNSW who have shown that they can field 5 grades and colts.

I think the whole structure needs re-assessment. I don't know the answer, but someone out there must.

 

[RocketRugby]

I think DIV 1 and possibly Div 2 should stay as is.

Then the rest organsied into geographical or skill based competitions. Then if this clubs want to make a play at higher honours and can get the numbers they move up.

In Division 2, you have Epping, Hills, Beecroft not 'meeting the required 4 grades and colts'. Don't think you can keep Division 2 as it is. Either the requirements have to change or the clubs do.

 

[SubbiesSoftie]

Someone sent me a Tom Brady quote which I think sums up some of the player issues we're seeing as far as commitment is concerned.

He's talking about professional sport but it rings true even for Subbies. I don't think this is true of all younger players, but it is certainly a different approach to commitment.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1779216801945325744

Ahhh yes, of course it's young people that are ruining subbies rugby! It definitely couldn't be that they are turned off by a poorly managed competition that gives them 6 byes a season. They couldn't be that smart could they?

 

[SticksXI]

In Division 2, you have Epping, Hills, Beecroft not 'meeting the required 4 grades and colts'. Don't think you can keep Division 2 as it is. Either the requirements have to change or the clubs do.

It's almost like a 10 team division one was the answer

 

[Pfitzy]

Ahhh yes, of course it's young people that are ruining subbies rugby! It definitely couldn't be that they are turned off by a poorly managed competition that gives them 6 byes a season. They couldn't be that smart could they?

Read the post you muppet

 

[Pfitzy]

It's almost like a 10 team division one was the answer

Besides the fact nobody in Division 1 actually wanted to play 18 rounds, and nobody was happy playing a split draw for 14 rounds, and ground allocations are getting increasingly limited by cricket and other sports, sure...

 

[TheBigArvo]

It's almost like a 10 team division one was the answer

I thought the answer was a 12 team Div 1 with UNSW, Pats, Petersham and Newport going up. Play everyone once and have 2 byes.
But look at the start from Unis 1st Grade would of been a tough year for them.
Nothings perfect clubs (gagr) need to learn to put up with it