Sydney Subbies 2022

[Pfitzy]

Div 4 Round 12 this week:

HAC v Epping - Rams to put a big score on and maintain clear third place, right behind Savers.
Savers v Merrylands - I think the Wolves will travel well but Savers might have too much. The week off will have them champing at the bit.
Renegades v Chatswood - Staggies got us in R3 at Beauchamp through far better organisation. We're a bit more settled with selections now and hopefully will get the chocolates at home.
Oysters v Saints - Ladder leaders will have too much. Suspect it will get moved from Lyne Park to Woollahra #2 or #3 with the forecast.
Mac Uni v Raptors - Mac Uni have had 2 tough weeks and they'll be up against it physically, but should have enough to get the job done.
Redfield v Canterbury - pretty easy to pick this one. Hopefully the fixture goes ahead and Canterbury can meet their obligations for the last 3 rounds.

What might be interesting is Epping get a BP win and Savers get a non-BP win - puts them level on points, with Savers ahead on Wins in that scenario. A win by Merrylands puts Epping back in the box seat for 2nd.

 

[oldmate11]

Div 2 round 11

First set of reverse fixtures this week, will be interesting to compare results.

Beecroft v Newport - Despite us being at home Newport should be way too strong for us. If we can keep the score respectable that will give us a bit of confidence heading into some more winnable games. Newport by 25+

Briars v Lindfield - Briars will be burning they choked away a solid lead against Hills last weekend. Lindfield should get the job done away from home but they’ll be made to work for it. Lindfield by 12.

Old Iggies v Quins - Wheels have fallen off at Ryde after getting towelled up by Valley. Quins coming off a tryfest loss against UNSW. If they’re able to put 31 points on them you would imagine they could back that attacking performance up against a depleted old ignatians side. Quins by 30+

UNSW v Old Barker - Match of the round for me. Should be a good contest to start but I feel that UNSW will pull away in the second half. UNSW by 18

Blacktown v Hawkesbury Valley - #prayforblacktown We’ll see triple digits here.

In total, I don’t see any change in results from round 3 matchups. I would imagine that would stay the same for other rounds seeing as most teams have stayed at a consistent level.

 

[Eastcoast]

Div 2 round 11

First set of reverse fixtures this week, will be interesting to compare results.

Beecroft v Newport - Despite us being at home Newport should be way too strong for us. If we can keep the score respectable that will give us a bit of confidence heading into some more winnable games. Newport by 25+

Briars v Lindfield - Briars will be burning they choked away a solid lead against Hills last weekend. Lindfield should get the job done away from home but they’ll be made to work for it. Lindfield by 12.

Old Iggies v Quins - Wheels have fallen off at Ryde after getting towelled up by Valley. Quins coming off a tryfest loss against UNSW. If they’re able to put 31 points on them you would imagine they could back that attacking performance up against a depleted old ignatians side. Quins by 30+

UNSW v Old Barker - Match of the round for me. Should be a good contest to start but I feel that UNSW will pull away in the second half. UNSW by 18

Blacktown v Hawkesbury Valley - #prayforblacktown We’ll see triple digits here.

In total, I don’t see any change in results from round 3 matchups. I would imagine that would stay the same for other rounds seeing as most teams have stayed at a consistent level.

Great write up - Interesting to see the decline of Div 2 - Used to have majority of the teams as competitive. But this seems like only 2-3 can actually win this. Newport are strong but not as good as last year? Where did the Shute Shield players go? Why are Hills so bad this year? HV being strong is always scary. Used to hate being toweled up at McQuade

 

[Doritos Day]

A few clubs scrambling for grounds this week ive heard. Alot of teams coming up to having an extra 2-3 games to make up on top of their own. Lucky in Div 1 we still have another WW week which will be used well I feel.
Some good games this week
Drummoyne - Knox - The two battlers of the season going head to head. This one could be entertaining. Dirty Reds by 6
Petersham - Forest - Forest had so many opportunities last week and did nothing with it. Cant see them getting over a Petersham team that shouldnt have lost last week either. Camperdown wont be in good shape - this one might wait 2 weeks to be played
HH - Mosman - Close one for us last week. Horrible way to finish the game. Jake has been one of our best for a few seasons now. Wishing him a speedy recovery. The boys will rally and come away with a win. HH by 5
Blueys - Colleagues -Colleagues will handle the size of Blueys easily. Could put another 50 on here. Is Lapstone going to handle another Wet Weatherweek?
St Pats - Waverley - Pats have a good team, but Waverley are on another level at the moment. The'Hurtlocker' is a mud patch on its best day. Not sure what state it will be at the moment. Hopefully for Pats sake they dont have to travel to Pfitzys favourite surface at Latham. Waverley to make a statement for the Cup this week. Waves by 14

My spies tell me a snorkel and flippers are appropriate attire for the 'Hurtlocker' as it stands. Strathfield Council drive a hard bargain at the best of times, I think mid-week games are favourite over a shift to Latham though. Petersham is in slightly better shape but the cricket pitch poses an issue as always.

EC - aside from Knox (a foregone conclusion) who else do you see going down to D2.

 

[Pfitzy]

Great write up - Interesting to see the decline of Div 2 - Used to have majority of the teams as competitive. But this seems like only 2-3 can actually win this. Newport are strong but not as good as last year? Where did the Shute Shield players go? Why are Hills so bad this year? HV being strong is always scary. Used to hate being toweled up at McQuade

It isn't really a decline IMHO - the division is composed of 5 teams from Div 2 last year and 6 from Div 3. Always going to be tough.

Top 6 is all class of 2021 Div 2, with the exception of Hawkesbury Valley.
Newport have a game in hand against Blacktown so they should probably be on top of the ladder with 45 at this point.
After that it is a 2-game gap to 7th (noting the game in hand for Harlequins is Lindfield, which is a tough ask).

 

[Denistone_Dennis]

Great write up - Interesting to see the decline of Div 2 - Used to have majority of the teams as competitive. But this seems like only 2-3 can actually win this. Newport are strong but not as good as last year? Where did the Shute Shield players go? Why are Hills so bad this year? HV being strong is always scary. Used to hate being toweled up at McQuade

Not sure it's as simple as 2 or 3 teams, I think any of the top 5 can do it if they can make a run from here.

Hills set piece (especially scrum) appears to be the strongest in Div 2, but their play around the field doesn't look like it's clicked. IF they can get it rolling I wouldn't want to face them in a knockout game.

Newport seem like they are a little off the boil now. Sides seem to be scoring pretty freely, might be a case of who can stop leaking points will take it.

 

[Eastcoast]

From my slight Cluch viewing of Div 2, I dont rate UNSW, Hills, Lindfield or Barker. Sloppy across the park and can only rack up wins against the lower teams. No structure. The teams below them are playing a poor standard as well as would do good from Subbies slotting a Div 3 Comp in where they can rebuild.

DD - I feel that Knox will be the only team dropping down to Div 2. Every other team is a cut above Div 2. No team from Div 2 would compete in Div 1. Every first grade team will get 30-40 put on them by the teams up here.

 

[Pfitzy]

No team from Div 2 would compete in Div 1.

That's... kind of the idea. HH and St Pats were very strong in that division last year, hence their promotion and current position in the top half of the table.

As for only booting Knox, well if we're going back to 8-club Divisions, which I think makes for a better season, then we'd need to choose someone else as well. Current Club Championship - my calculations (hey could be wrong) as the Subbies site numbers don't add up?

Colleagues	1639
Waverley	1619
St Pats	1490
Mosman	1281
Hunters Hill	1190
Blue Mts	943
Forest	852
Petersham	834
Drummoyne	599
Knox	500

Compare to https://rugbyresults.fusesport.com/summaryladder.asp?seasonid=989

 

[Pfitzy]

Current Div 4 Championship if my numbers are right - quite a gap from 4 to 5 and then cliff face to 6!

Harbour	1670
Epping	1518
Merrylands	1480
Savers	1456
Redfield	1102
Mac Uni	674
Renegades	656
Raptors	584
Chatswood	554
Saints	420
Canterbury	420
HAC	394

 

[C.Dark]

The constable of darkness returns after some time away for the much anticipated tips from the station

Redfield v Canterbury
This ones easy, even for the thin wrists of wredfield, I don’t expect many to travel if any at all
Redfield win 28-0

manly v Merrylands
Here it is folks, punch your tickets, clear your pipes, empty your sacks it’s the match of the round! Manly looking tough through the season but in the eyes of the constable not tough enough, my blokes to upset the almond milk all stars here in an absolute spectacle of a game. She’ll be a wet one and no team likes it sloppier than the henchmen from holroyd
Merrylands win 14-10

HAC v epping
Not much in this going by their last encounter, coach Protestant (or whatever his name is) looking to boost the Epping 5 dragons for and against this week in a big way
Epping win 50+

harbour v saints
The taints really struggling to get out of first gear and Sydney hardly rugby club looking to cement their spot up high in the tower of terror (with one grade… yawn) this one’s not going to be pretty
Sydney win 40+

Renegades v Chatswood
I told you all, I told you twice watch out watch out for the men of mice! The mouse hill penetrators looking to go 3 from 3 out at plipzys playhouse in their late surge towards the finals, stags to improve on last rounds performance but just fall short to the pride of the west
Renegades win 15-7

Mac uni v raptors
Uni at home in the wet to a team facing numbers challenges looks to be the safe bet, but with a team like the raptors you never know, on their day with the right numbers they can be a pretty difficult plum to poach.
Considering that though
Uni win 21-5

 

[Mangoman]

Looking to next season, 8 teams per division has to be the end goal. See below for a possible layout that should keep most happy and minimise the weeks where a whole grade goes without games (see Div 2 4th Grade this season...). Thoughts??

Div 1	Div 2	Div 3	Div 4	Div 5a	Div 5b
4 + C	4 + C	3	2	1	1
Blue Mountains	Newport	Harlequins	Renegades	Menai	Oatley
Colleagues	UNSW	Briars	Sydney Harbour (1)	Irish	Balmain
Waverley	Hills	Iggies	Mac Uni	Wakehurst	Dukes
Hunters Hill	Lindfield	Beecroft	Chatswood	North Cronulla	Lane Cove
St Pats	Hawkesbury Valley (3)	Savers	Saints	Burraneer	Maccabi
Mosman	Barker (2)	Epping	Kings	Brothers	Convicts
Petersham	Knox	Redfield	Canterbury	Raptors	Colleagues 5/6 ?
Forest	Drummoyne	Blacktown	Hawkesbury Ag		Mosman 5/6 ?

 

[WoodyWoodsman]

Current Div 4 Championship if my numbers are right - quite a gap from 4 to 5 and then cliff face to 6!

Harbour	1670
Epping	1518
Merrylands	1480
Savers	1456
Redfield	1102
Mac Uni	674
Renegades	656
Raptors	584
Chatswood	554
Saints	420
Canterbury	420
HAC	394

How do Harbour get to 1670 with one side?

 

[Pfitzy]

Looking to next season, 8 teams per division has to be the end goal

Agreed - it works best for a full home/away in the timeframe.

Not sure about Colleagues or Mosman playing a team down in the lower divisions tho. They did that back in 2007 when I started, with Colleagues 6s playing in the place of a Convicts 2nd Grade. Was good for their Halligan Cup stats but they were playing some pretty tough games.

I think your comp format is about right, and that Colts are going to continue to be difficult for clubs in the Div 3 borderline like Valley and Quins.

 

[Pfitzy]

How do Harbour get to 1670 with one side?

Technically their 2nd Grade are all registered under Sydney Harbour. So they're effectively 2 grades, despite the drastic difference in livery.

 

[Prodigy]

Looking to next season, 8 teams per division has to be the end goal. See below for a possible layout that should keep most happy and minimise the weeks where a whole grade goes without games (see Div 2 4th Grade this season...). Thoughts??

Div 1	Div 2	Div 3	Div 4	Div 5a	Div 5b
4 + C	4 + C	3	2	1	1
Blue Mountains	Newport	Harlequins	Renegades	Menai	Oatley
Colleagues	UNSW	Briars	Sydney Harbour (1)	Irish	Balmain
Waverley	Hills	Iggies	Mac Uni	Wakehurst	Dukes
Hunters Hill	Lindfield	Beecroft	Chatswood	North Cronulla	Lane Cove
St Pats	Hawkesbury Valley (3)	Savers	Saints	Burraneer	Maccabi
Mosman	Barker (2)	Epping	Kings	Brothers	Convicts
Petersham	Knox	Redfield	Canterbury	Raptors	Colleagues 5/6 ?
Forest	Drummoyne	Blacktown	Hawkesbury Ag		Mosman 5/6 ?

I had suggested something similar in a conversation with some of the guys at Epping. My structure was a little different though.

Div1	Div 2	Div3	Div4	Radford	Meldrum
4+C	3+C	3	2	C	Extra Teams
Blue Mountains	Petersham/Forest	Beecroft	Blacktown	Beecroft	Colleagues
Colleagues	Barker	Briars	Chatswood	Mac Uni	Waverley
Drummoyne	Hawkesbury Valley	Epping	HAC	Briars	Mosman
Hunters Hill	Hills	Harlequins	Harbour	Iggies	Mountains
Mosman	Knox	Mac Uni	Iggies	Saints	Petersham/Forest
St Pats	Lindfield	Merrylands	Saints	Wakehurst	Newport
Waverley	Newport	Redfield	Convicts	Mosman	Hills
Petersham/Forest	UNSW	Savers	Kings Old Boys	Colleagues	Lindfield

All other clubs would fall into the Division 5 (one team) competition: Canterbury, Raptors, Menai, Irish, Wakehurst, SeaLice, Burraneer, Brothers, Balmain, Oatley, Dukes, Lane Cove.
If any of them could prove numbers for two team, they would potentially enter Division 4.
Radford Cup runs for the full season for those clubs as well.
The Meldrum Cup becomes a competition with a full home and away season for clubs with the extra teams from the change in structure. It would be considered as each club's next grade after their obligations.
Halligans Cup still runs for the non-regular games needed by clubs. I don't think it should attract an extra charge, as it should be about building club numbers.

 

[Pfitzy]

Halligans Cup still runs for the non-regular games needed by clubs. I don't think it should attract an extra charge, as it should be about building club numbers.

Good point. Have always found the "4 games and you start paying" a bit random. It is proportional tho I believe so e.g. if you play 7 games of a 14 week season it is only 50%?

I think I prefer the structure you and @Mangoman have above as far as Colts not being compulsory for Div 3 - while I understand the *original* reasoning, it is a slog trying to get Colts going.

We'll give it a shot next year with a few current guys and some juniors from local clubs and league, but lot of work as Epping can no doubt attest.

 

[WestCoast]

From my slight Cluch viewing of Div 2, I dont rate UNSW, Hills, Lindfield or Barker. Sloppy across the park and can only rack up wins against the lower teams. No structure. The teams below them are playing a poor standard as well as would do good from Subbies slotting a Div 3 Comp in where they can rebuild.

DD - I feel that Knox will be the only team dropping down to Div 2. Every other team is a cut above Div 2. No team from Div 2 would compete in Div 1. Every first grade team will get 30-40 put on them by the teams up here.

Interesting take when UNSW are the only team to beat Newport this year in all grades except colts.

 

[Eastcoast]

Interesting take when UNSW are the only team to beat Newport this year in all grades except colts.

A few points to take here;
- Was this when UNSW stacked their lower grades
- Was this when UNSW was playing dual registered players
- This game appeared to be at DP
- Newport appeared to be severely undermanned on that day which happens when you play away from home
- Would this result be different at Porters? - Yes

You may have beaten Newport - but were smashed by Valley. So that still doesnt win the Barraclough.

 

[En Gage]

I had suggested something similar in a conversation with some of the guys at Epping. My structure was a little different though.

Div1	Div 2	Div3	Div4	Radford	Meldrum
4+C	3+C	3	2	C	Extra Teams
Blue Mountains	Petersham/Forest	Beecroft	Blacktown	Beecroft	Colleagues
Colleagues	Barker	Briars	Chatswood	Mac Uni	Waverley
Drummoyne	Hawkesbury Valley	Epping	HAC	Briars	Mosman
Hunters Hill	Hills	Harlequins	Harbour	Iggies	Mountains
Mosman	Knox	Mac Uni	Iggies	Saints	Petersham/Forest
St Pats	Lindfield	Merrylands	Saints	Wakehurst	Newport
Waverley	Newport	Redfield	Convicts	Mosman	Hills
Petersham/Forest	UNSW	Savers	Kings Old Boys	Colleagues	Lindfield

All other clubs would fall into the Division 5 (one team) competition: Canterbury, Raptors, Menai, Irish, Wakehurst, SeaLice, Burraneer, Brothers, Balmain, Oatley, Dukes, Lane Cove.
If any of them could prove numbers for two team, they would potentially enter Division 4.
Radford Cup runs for the full season for those clubs as well.
The Meldrum Cup becomes a competition with a full home and away season for clubs with the extra teams from the change in structure. It would be considered as each club's next grade after their obligations.
Halligans Cup still runs for the non-regular games needed by clubs. I don't think it should attract an extra charge, as it should be about building club numbers.

I can't see Renegades on your divisional structure. Is it an error on your behalf, my eyesight or do you know something we don't?

 

[Pfitzy]

I can't see Renegades on your divisional structure. Is it an error on your behalf, my eyesight or do you know something we don't?

Look I *think* we'll be good for 2 Grades next year, but who knows what will change between now and then?