Sydney Subbies 2022

[Pfitzy]

Are they trying to destroy rugby? Head in sand stuff.

Half the clubs can expect calls after Round 1 from Tim Richards saying what do you mean you can't field a 3rds, 4ths and colts? They just arent interested in listening.

Out of curiosity: are you actually involved in a Subbies club at the moment?

If not, how long has it been?

 

[Prodigy]

Apparently no changes to Div 2 strucutre following the meeting last night.

One club asked to play 1s , 3s and colts, wanting to skip second grade.
Lots of other clubs very tight lipped about numbers/lack of numbers.
Only four teams nominated for fourth grade. Will not be played at this point.
What a shit fight

 

[Waterloo_Ned]

We should get our charity match on at 5PM Saturday, but it is only because we begged.

Draw for Div 4 probably next week. Lot of moving parts.

Can you please elaborate? What are the moving parts?

The Divisions need to be completely be redone. The board needs to take Div 2 to 8 teams by moving Blacktown, Briars, Harlequins and Raptors down to Div3. They then need to promote Epping, Redfield, Northern Saints to join them in Div 3 (Making it a 7 team Division 3). This leaves a 7 team Division 4, although could be 8 if you moved Brothers up. Can someone tell me that is not a better system? You have a dynamic Division 2 and 3 each with colts (except maybe Redfield but that's fine).

 

[Pfitzy]

Can you please elaborate? What are the moving parts?

1) Divisions 1 and 2/3 needed to be settled. In a normal year, that is largely peripheral, but a lot has moved over 2 COVID-affected seasons. Would Old Barker stay up based on 2 Grades + Colts last year? Would HAC be able to continue given their numbers? Who could fill those places if they came down?

2) Determing who is sticking in Fourth Division or dropping down to 1 team. That has changed about three times as clubs drop in and out - weather hasn't helped with determining numbers for individual clubs here, either. I was looking at our list with trepidation as recently as 10 days ago.

3) After that is sorted, we're left with 11 clubs - that means byes. Ugh... Making a draw with 8 clubs is a degree easier than 11, even tho it is only an extra fixture each week. You're now doing 6 home and 6 away games instead of an easy 7/7.

3a. Ground availability issues go up a notch with more fixtures in the same division. For some it is easier than others, but e.g. my club shares with a rugby league club who play Saturdays , and so first one in usually gets the dates tho I try to make something reasonable before they get their draw in March. It isn't a guarantee even then, so we need to do a bit of horse trading to see what comes out in the wash. Reckon we might be playing a few night time games this year at Renegades if things don't quite work out.

3b. A significant point to make here: smaller clubs often operate at the mercy of Councils or other organisations, who want to maximise their field usage to cover costs - my club couldn't afford to pay for seasonal hire all day for every second Saturday, as one example. Larger clubs have a better case for keeping a ground all day, and often are a bit better off financially and/or have a longstanding history and investment in their ground. Renegades Rugby have had 6 home grounds in 15 years.

4) Last issue for this division in particular is Sydney Harbour having 1 team, and how their 2nd grade slot gets filled*. If Epping have 4 teams of a Saturday they're pushing hard for 2 Halligan Cup games at the best of times. Trying to find a 3rd is nigh on impossible.

*Bit of a discussion point, this. The Oysters are a red hot team and have an average winning margin somewhere north of 25 points last I checked. One loss in their history (to another good team in Redfield). Despite this success, they don't have a second grade side - tho they're only 3 years old. Probably have enough talent to play the same 20 guys in two grades and win them easily, mind you. If they've got 30 guys on the books, that's good enough given the quality they obviously have.

 

[Pfitzy]

They then need to promote Epping, Redfield, Northern Saints to join them in Div 3 (Making it a 7 team Division 3).

None of the 3 have Colts teams at this point, tho I know they'd love to get them going.

And you're probably not going to get a working Div 3 with 7 Clubs anyway - one starts to struggle with numbers and that comp dies hard.

 

[Pfitzy]

This leaves a 7 team Division 4, although could be 8 if you moved Brothers up.

Brothers have gone from 2 Grade + Colts to 1 Grade + Colts in the last 10 days. Can't work off that basis, and 2 Divisions of 7 teams is also more byes and more angst if your bye comes up against a Wet Weather round.

 

[WoodyWoodsman]

The problem with all the above, Pfitzy, is that clubs like Newport, UNSW, Hills and Lindfield are screwed royally in their comp. Only four teams in Division 2 nominated for fourth grade..... and plenty won't field 3rd grade and potentially colts.
Yet, you have a club like Epping with 4 grades. Tell me which is a bigger evil at this point - no Colts or no 3rd and 4th grade?

The Rams are in a terrible position. Finding a season worth of games for 3rd and 4th grade will be difficult, but then trying to make sure those guys remain a part of the club when the two parts of the club are separate. Heaven help them if they get the colts up and running (which I hear is almost there). Potentially 3/4 venues for one club on Saturday. How do the Rams convince players to drive to another venue to sit on the bench for second grade?

When Epping dies because the players, coaches and committee have had enough, the Board at Subbies will have a great club's blood on its hands. Rugby in the former stronghold of Epping/Eastwood/Marsfield will have been killed by bureaucrats and their unequivocal need for colts.

No allowance for Epping in Division 2, yet as you mentioned, the Oysters will play in Division 4 with one grade. Oh, 'but we might be able to get Easts 5th grade' to play as their second grade'. How's that hypocrisy?

 

[Pfitzy]

Sounds like you need to nominate for the Board

 

[Ref_Ted]

We should get our charity match on at 5PM Saturday, but it is only because we begged.

Draw for Div 4 probably next week. Lot of moving parts.

Congrats on the only Subbies game this weekend.

 

[Pfitzy]

Congrats on the only Subbies game this weekend.

Thanks - we're very aware how fortunate we are to get on the park.

I say we "begged" but really we've done the only thing we can do as a small, amateur club, and maintain a good relationship with the people managing our facility - who just happen to be pro NRL club. We're definitely not taking our situation for granted and hopefully we can starting growing on this basis. Pending COVID

 

[Pfitzy]

BTW @WoodyWoodsman I'm not going to pretend this is an ideal situation.

However, after two truncated seasons due to COVID, there were always going to be challenges getting back to "normal" (whatever that looks like now).

 

[Pfitzy]

@Ref_Ted I think a couple of other trials made it to launch - Manly Savers and Mac Uni are trialling tomorrow with one or two other clubs?

 

[Waterloo_Ned]

@Ref_Ted I think a couple of other trials made it to launch - Manly Savers and Mac Uni are trialling tomorrow with one or two other clubs?

Manly, Uni, Brothers and Balmain are in a blockbuster 4-way.

 

[Waterloo_Ned]

No allowance for Epping in Division 2, yet as you mentioned, the Oysters will play in Division 4 with one grade. Oh, 'but we might be able to get Easts 5th grade' to play as their second grade'. How's that hypocrisy?

It is a classic example of Subbies board picking and choosing to make exceptions when they like. Todd Payten said it best when he said "the big clubs get advantages". Harbour are allowed into Div 4 despite not meeting the criteria. Knox have not met the criteria for first division for 5 years. Barker have never met the criteria for top divisions, however these clubs have always had allowances. Valley can run around without a colts and forfeit but that is good enough to be moved down. Unfortunately, some clubs are not given the same level of respect like Epping and Redfield etc. Now the Central Coast Rugby Union is trying to swoop in and have offered Epping a spot, in their 3 grades and optional colts competition. It shows you the key to the competition is to have a member from your club on the committee. If you have that, you can continue to stay in divisions or competitions you wish without issues or questioning.

 

[Waterloo_Ned]

Brothers have gone from 2 Grade + Colts to 1 Grade + Colts in the last 10 days. Can't work off that basis, and 2 Divisions of 7 teams is also more byes and more angst if your bye comes up against a Wet Weather round.

Such an exaggerated point in my opinion. So 1-2 clubs cop 2 weeks off from rugby at some point. This is far more plausible than having Lindfield turn up with 5 grades to play a Blacktown side with 2 grades. Would be interesting to see how many teams Blacktown are sending to Forest today?

 

[Waterloo_Ned]

Around the grounds in Subbies yesterday:

- Renegades 41 beat Dukes 19
- Balmain 12 beat Mac Uni 7
- Balmain 22 beat Brothers 12
- Manly 26 beat Mac Uni very comfortably
- Manly 19 beat Mac Uni
- Forest hammered Blacktown

 

[footy_footy]

Hearing rumours Petersham will be very lucky to field a Colts team in 2022 - any truth to this?

Should it be true, they aren't much different to the Div 4 Rams!?

I don't envy Subbies - a real square peg and round hole situation. I'm not sure what the solution is but I do feel Lindfield, UNSW & Newport are the ones who lose out the most. To field 4-5 grades and a colts is commendable, just a shame they may not be able to play.

 

[Pfitzy]

Hearing rumours Petersham will be very lucky to field a Colts team in 2022 - any truth to this?

Should it be true, they aren't much different to the Div 4 Rams!?

I don't envy Subbies - a real square peg and round hole situation. I'm not sure what the solution is but I do feel Lindfield, UNSW & Newport are the ones who lose out the most. To field 4-5 grades and a colts is commendable, just a shame they may not be able to play.

Last year Petersham had a combo deal with Sydney Uni didn't they? Think UNSW and Randwick might share a bit of talent as well for U21.

Colts looks like a hard slog from what I've seen, and what other clubs have said.

Getting kids back from the school system might need to be looked at. I know a few clubs out this way (including us) have colts age players who wanted to try something other than league.

 

[WoodyWoodsman]

Wouldn’t that be a thing…. No Colts for Petersham and Knox OB's lower grades numbers in serious question.

Then in Division 2, fourth grade is a shambles. Colts question marks over Valley, Blacktown, Harlequins.....

The division 4 draw not yet complete....

 

[Waterloo_Ned]

Wouldn’t that be a thing…. No Colts for Petersham and Knox OB's lower grades numbers in serious question.

Then in Division 2, fourth grade is a shambles. Colts question marks over Valley, Blacktown, Harlequins.....

The division 4 draw not yet complete....

I read on Facebook Blacktown have three grades and colts so I think your information is wrong.